When Dave The Mark Met Danny Black (1st December '24)
When Dave The Mark Met Jay Joshua (19th October '24)
When Dave The Mark Met Will Kaven (5th September '24)
When Dave The Mark Met Nightshade (29th August '24)
When Dave The Mark Met Rhio (22nd July '24)
When Dave The Mark Met JJ Gale II (21st July '24)
When Dave The Mark Met 'Goldenboy' Santos (30th June '24)
When Dave The Mark Met Jordan Saeed (7th June '24)
When Dave The Mark Met Lucia Lee (22nd May '24)
When Dave The Mark Met Josh James (28th April '24)
When Dave The Mark Met Leyton Buzzard (25th March '24)
When Dave The Mark Met Brett Semtex (28th February '24)
When Dave The Mark Met TK Cooper (9th September '23)
When Dave The Mark Met JJ Gale (20th August '23)
When Dave The Mark Met Levi Muir (15th August '23)
Scroll away for full interview transcripts!
'The Fall Of CPF' was a cute phrase I coined when Danny Black and Joe Lando defeated Greedy Souls at the 229 in October to record their first ever RevPro tag team win in the trios' eighth RevPro outing. The play on words regarding 'fall' was a nod to both autumn and Joe Lando's American heritage. Fast forward two months and the team are on a five match unbeaten run, they are the inaugural Trios Grand Prix winners and 'The Fall Of CPF' is very clearly representative of the RISE of a team who are in the form of their lives and with their world at their feet. After Sunday's 229 I was able to grab a Guinness 0.0 with 1/3 of CPF, 'The Kid Without Fear', Danny Black, and so here is When Dave The Mark Danny Black...
Dave The Mark: How was that mate? Back to back 229 wins for the CPF boys!
Danny Black: Second time pinning the former tag champs in two months... With all our recent success plus this, I think it’s clear to see it’s only a matter of time before we take those tag straps for ourselves and cement ourselves as not just [the] team in RevPro, not just in Europe but one of the top unsigned teams on the entire planet.
DTM: As you know, Sunshine Machine are our tag champs right now and, being two staple tag teams of the European tag scene, you boys have mixed it up time and time again across companies... You fancy one more?
DB: Yeah man! Without fact checking, off the top of my head I believe Sunshine Machine vs CPF (any variation) has happened six or seven times now, two of which happened in RevPro. However, after all of those matches, CPF currently only have one victory over Sunshine Machine, which took place in our most recent match. We’re obviously not too happy about that record BUT it says a lot that our most recent match is the one we managed to win. The form we are in now is the form of our careers... we are all the strongest versions of ourselves and I guarantee when we get to face off against the champs again, the result will be the exact same as the last match we had with them. CPF ON TOP!
DTM: So let's go back - this run of yours all began here at the 229 with your first RevPro victory [defeating Greedy Souls in October]. How did that feel at the time?
DB: It was overdue, for sure. It has taken us a while to find our feet here in RevPro but, honestly, with the form we’ve been in as of late it was inevitable we were gonna get the win no matter who was out in front of us. It was no easy task by any means - the Greedy Souls are two big, tough, hard hitting guys but it just goes to show that even with those two across the ring from us, we still picked up the win. I genuinely believe we can overcome any team we face; we are just on another level right now.
DTM: It was also a tough night, that, for Mav; what did you make of his match with Mills and what Mills had to say after?
DB: Just as a fan of wrestling, I was really looking forward to that match. Mills & Mayhew have a deep rooted history in BritWres and that’s a history which I watched unfold in front of me as I was just getting into the business. I look up to both guys a lot. I’ve known Mayhew the longest of anyone I know in wrestling, he is one of the most underrated talents in the world in my opinion; his natural talent for this sport is unmatched and on top of that he is one of my best friends and has helped me improve so much over the years. On the other side there’s Mills who, despite his current attitude and words he had for Mayhew after the match... which I’ll get to... for my money Mills is one of the best professional wrestlers in the world right now. He is also someone I’ve known for a very long time in wrestling and I wouldn’t be half the wrestler I am now if it wasn’t for the amount of times I’ve gotten to wrestle and train with Mills over the years.
DTM: Mate, the number of people who have said that about Mills...
DB: He always pushed me further than I thought I could go, every time we wrestled, and it made me ten times better every single time we got to get in there. Now that I’ve given credit where it’s due, I will say I’m disappointed on what he had to say after the match. Now I don’t know if this is Mills being harsh to try and bring something, a fire, out of Mayhew that he feels he is missing or has lost as of late, or Mills was just being a straight up dickhead... But either way I think deep down he knows Mayhew is still that guy that beat him time and time again when they wrestled loads back in the day and I think that eats away at Mills. I would love to get in the ring with Mills again to show him this new level I’m on alongside Joe or Mayhew and to get the chance to slap him up for what he said about my brother is something that I feel needs to be done. He is great but I hate this attitude he’s got and I feel like someone needs to slap some humbleness back into him and I am MORE than happy to be the one to do that.
DTM: Mate, I would love to see that! And then we had Royal Quest - congratulations first and foremost on your New Japan debut - how was that, man?
DB: Honestly, it was incredible... couldn’t have asked for a better experience. It was so special to me for so many reasons; we got to show everyone at New Japan and their audience watching on NJPW World and RevPro On Demand as well as the amazing fans in attendance what we can bring to a New Japan ring... I hope they liked what they saw. We got to wrestle a literal living legend in Ishimori, I got to finally make my New Japan debut alongside one of my best friends and, even though we didn’t pick up the win, I’d like to say we showed why we consider ourselves to be one of the best tag teams in Europe and hopefully one day we will get to call ourselves one of the top teams in Japan... And the whole world!
DTM: It's just a matter of time, surely.
DB: It was also special to us personally as it was the first time we had both been on the same show as our best friend Callum Newman since may of 2023. We’ve seen Callum for a few days here and there when he’s been back from his long stays in Japan but to finally all be on a show together again, especially a New Japan show was a dream come true for all of us. Just one more reason why me and Joe need to be in New Japan more often, we miss our boy too much.
DTM: I'd love to see you boys all together in Japan - is it somewhere you've always wanted to work?
DB: Absolutely. New Japan is THE company for me. The match that started it all for me, what got me back into wrestling and made me want to pursue this as my career was the famous Ospreay vs Ricochet match from the Best Of The Super Junior tournament. New Japan is literally the reason I decided I wanted to be a wrestler and is my ultimate dream company to work for. So to get to finally work for them was a dream come true but at the same time it was only the start for me. I didn’t think it was possible but wrestling at Royal Quest made me even more hungry to make CPF in a NJPW ring a permanent thing!
DTM: It's a special company and it feels somewhere CPF would fit right in.
DB: To let you in on something personal... While Robbie was making his entrance I’d kind of zoned out from what was happening around me and was just staring at the NJPW corner pad and I legitimately started to tear up. I had to snap out of it quick because I had a match to wrestle but that speaks to how much it meant to me to work for New Japan.
DTM: And Robbie obviously has just come back from his first Japanese tour for Junior Tag League - now that is a tournament that feels made for you boys.
DB: It definitely is, that is our biggest goal at the moment and something we are dead set on is being apart of the Junior Tag League in 2025. And once we get there and show Japan and every other team in that tournament what Steeze and Greaze is, we will have our sights firmly set on the IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Titles. But yeah, it’s not even a matter of wanting it, CPF NEED to be in that tournament next year!
DTM: And that surely will come, mate, and it will stem from you and Joe grinding, not just in the UK, but all over the world in the last few years - how do you think those experiences have shaped you?
DB: The experience we’ve gained from everywhere we’ve traveled has really helped shape us into the team we are today. We’ve learnt so much for every different country, every different team we’ve faced. We’ve taken those lessons and applied them to make ourself one of the best, more coherent tag teams around, in any country.
DTM: Outside of the UK, where's been your favourite spot?
DB: There’s so many I’ve enjoyed for different reasons... obviously America has to be up there as it’s a place I’ve wanted to visit and explore since I was a child and, with the recent tour we did this past summer, we got to visit so many different states, wrestle in so many different venues, wrestle for some of the top independent wrestling promotions in the world out there and make so incredible memories... not just in the ring but outside as well. BUT of all the countries we’ve had the pleasure of wrestling in, France has to be number 1! France... specifically a promotion called Banger Zone Wrestling... holds a special place in both our hearts and has become a home away from home for us. Nothing compares to the crowds we get out there. The love and respect we get from our fans over there is unparalleled!
DTM: I've seen your posts about those shows - they love you!
DTM: And so that brings us to Coventry... The inaugural Trios Grand Prix... What a weekend, eh?
DB: The Trios Grand Prix weekend was one of the most tiring, yet most rewarding weekends of my life. There’s only ever gonna be one first ever in history and to be able to say that we are the first ever winners of the RevPro Trios Tournament is crazy yet, it feels like it was meant to happen.
DB: To get to go through all that, the rollercoaster of emotions those two days were, to do that with two of my best friends by my side meant everything to me. Those two boys... along with Callum... are not just friends, we are family. We’ve been through so much together in life and the bond we have is inseparable. I literally have a ballon tattooed on my arm to symbolise that. I’m so grateful that I get to do this with my brothers, I wouldn’t change that for the world.
DTM: And being the first ever, when there was so much talent involved... That must have made even more special.
DB: That tournament afforded us the opportunity to face off with some of the best trios from all over the world. First round we had the pleasure of being the Bryants' welcome party to RevPro. Me and Nino actually started on the exact same beginners wrestling course at the same training school when we started out... Michael Oku was also on that exact same course at the same time as me and Nino... so I’ve literally known him since day one and to see the wrestler he and his brothers have become has been a pleasure to watch. I’ve been screaming about how good they are and how they need to be everywhere for years... I’m so glad they finally got to showcase that in a place like RevPro and the fact that we got to be their first match was perfect.
DTM: I was so impressed and to see them here again today - the first of many I hope. Semi-Final you boys got the Spectral Envoy....
DB: Then we had the HONOUR of facing off against them - absolute LEGENDS when it comes to trios wrestling, the Kings of Trios, Spectral Envoy. Getting to step in the ring with them as a trios team itself was crazy but to be the ones to knock them out the tournament and secure our place in the final and to have them show us the respect they did after the match was something I’ll always be grateful for!
DTM: And then the final...
DB: Oh yeah, then of course that brings us to final. CPF had wrestled BBL twice leading up to that. There was a few years between those matches and a good few months between the most recent and the actual finalt... To see how much those guys have improved and grown as wrestlers in such a short amount of time speaks volumes to how hard they’ve been working and how committed they are to becoming big names in this industry one day. But for all of us this was the first time we got to face off with Zozaya and of course we’ve heard all the hype, we’d seen in person how incredible he is at RevPro but actually getting in there with him I can tell you, all the hype around his name doesn’t even come close to how good he actually is.
DTM: He really is unbelievable.
DB: Honestly the amount of talent and hunger on both sides in that final it easily could have gone either way honestly at some points I think a lot of people would have said they were gonna win, especially due to the fact they were a lot more fresh than us going into the final BUT... thankfully... we were able to overcome that and come out the inaugural RevPro Trios Grand Prix winners! Now, we have to decide what we’re gonna use these trophies for. Like I said, we’re definitely not gonna rush this and take it for granted BUT we do already have a good idea of what we might do with the first one which I think will surprise a lot of people but, trust me when I say, it WILL NOT disappoint. Stay tuned for that!
DTM: Oh mate, you've got me thinking now! Can't wait for that announcement. Well, mate, I'm very conscious of your time and the fact that we will be kicked out of here any minute so, maybe we can come back to this after you boys have cashed in those trophies for Part II.
DB: Sounds good, man
DTM: It's been a pleasure, and, finally, congratulations once more!
Jay Joshua has had a wild ride over the past few months in Revolution Pro Wrestling. Debuting against RKJ, like so many do, he returned for matches against JJ Gale, Leon Slater and Luke Jacobs before securing his first victory, over Zozaya in the 229, followed by a tag victory with Connor Mills over Michael Oku and Zozaya in Southampton. Tonight, he wrestled in front of one of the biggest crowds of his careers, on the biggest card of his career in, what has to be, the biggest match of his career, teaming with Connor Mills and Gabe Kidd to face Zozaya, Leon Slater and Hiroshi Tanahashi. A huge spotlight on the man 'Sicker Than Your Average'. I caught a chat with Jay after Global Wars, my first post-show interview, and so here's When Dave The Mark Met Jay Joshua.
Dave The Mark: Thanks for taking the time to chat, really appreciate it.
Jay Joshua: Say Less.
DTM: Can I take you back to the 229, the show that led to tonight; did you know Mills' intentions before you stepped into the ring or was his attack on Zozaya a surprise to you?
JJ: Nah man, I didn’t know anything. I knew their encounter previously... while I was having a beer at the previous 229 but... I don’t care... it wasn’t going to get in the way of my first win in RevPro.
DTM: What did your first win in RevPro mean to you?
JJ: Means I go on to gain momentum. Those who know me know [that] once I catch fire, nobody out there can match me.
DTM: Did the way the Zozaya result turn out tarnish the moment for you?
JJ: No; I got the win, I will get a lot more moments by myself… a lot more.
DTM: Where did the frustration stem from that led to the post match attack on Zozaya?
JJ: Frustration grew the more and more I lost... I was sick and tired of trying to be someone I’m not, just trying to impress rather than what I do best which is catch bodies. Mills knew what I was capable of; outside of RevPro I’m 3-0 against him [and] he knows I’m a real killer.
DTM: You say "trying to be someone [you're] not" - can you expand on that?
JJ: The real just tries to catch bodies instead of thinking about everyone else’s opinion of me.
DTM: I got ya. Where does that pressure to impress come from? What, a will to impress Andy, the other wrestlers or the fans?
JJ: Desire to impress all of the above.
[Jay doesn't say a lot but he's really cool, calm and measured in his responses]
DTM: Is there animosity there still for Zozaya or was he wrong place, wrong time?
JJ: All of it. If it wasn’t for him I would have so much more hype... If he wasn’t there... but I didn’t let it get to me until I noticed Mills getting him. Most importantly I wanted a shortcut to Global Wars and attacking Zozaya was me saying I want in on the action for the six man tag.
DTM: And that got you a spot on tonight's card, right?
JJ: Exactly.
DTM: What do you think of the comparisons made between you and Zozaya in how you came in and hit the ground running?
JJ: To me it’s cool but, real talk, it doesn’t mean anything to me cause I lost my first four matches. I ain’t losing that many times in a row again.
DTM: Prior to your debut, how had you always seen RevPro from afar?
JJ: RevPro to me is the standard in European wrestling let alone the UK scene. It’s where I wanted to be since I began this game.
DTM: And you made your debut against RKJ... what are your thoughts on that looking back?
JJ: That’s the one loss that has gotten to me cause I came in focusing on impressing rather than winning. But it got me in the door so I won’t ever forget that day.
DTM: Then JJ, Jacobs and Leon - you came so close against the very best in the company and had the crowd with you from the start. What does that mean to you?
JJ: Close but not enough. I had all those guys beat too, that’s one of the reasons why I snapped, because outside of RevPro I had one of the biggest killer instincts out there but I let the thought of being on RevPro overwhelm me.
DTM: You say you had them beat - do you feel you had moments in those matches where you were too far in your head then?
JJ: Easily, I feel I can go out there and beat anybody they put in front of me and I’ll do everything I can to make that happen. No lie... I ain’t taking anything away from them... they are all among the best in Europe but I know deep down I can beat them, especially Luke Jacobs for that title.
DTM: Then in Southampton you main evented for the first time - is that significant to you?
JJ: Not gonna lie to you that was something else and we got the win easily too.
DTM: "Easily", bold words, but it was certainly decisive, right?
JJ: It was easy for us.
[Jay smiles that handsome, warm but cheeky smile]
JJ: Me and Mills never tagged ever before and we went up against the RevPro golden boys. What nobody realises... we won that match clean and why’s that? Cause we can.
DTM: I'm not arguing with that. It was a big, big win. Is the alliance with Mills something you’re interested in pursuing further or was it a means to an end?
JJ: Listen, me and Mills understand what’s needed to get the opportunities and we have a mutual anger towards most people on the roster. There will a point where me and Mills will go at it one on one and, like the previous outcomes, I’ll catch his body too.
[His confidence is so clear for all to see]
DTM: Is it fair to call yours and Mills' relationship a “marriage of convenience”?
JJ: "Marriage of convenience"? Yeah it was but we had a short history before all this anyway. I wanted to be on his team for Global Wars - Mills is one of the best wrestlers in Europe and I wasn’t letting that slip.
DTM: Real recognises real, right?
JJ: Yeah real recognising real with Mills. He knows how good I am and Mills is one of the elite level competitors out there so me beating him shows my level too.
DTM: Tonight [Global Wars] was massive for you and your career - would you agree?
JJ: Biggest night of my career. If somebody told me at the beginning I would be fighting Hiroshi Tanahashi, the Ace of New Japan? I’d say you’re telling lies to me. I wish the outcome of the result was different but it has been truly a special night.
DTM: And tonight you seemed very keen to get your hands on Tanahashi - is that fair?
JJ: Hell yeah! I wanted to prove myself against the Ace of New Japan. I want the best fighters out there especially in New Japan. I want Aces, Dragons and especially a Pitbull. All I want to do is to catch bodies.
DTM: Love that.
DTM: Do you feel like with those two wins prior to tonight that your form has shifted?
JJ: My form always shifts each match I compete in but two wins in a row with York Hall coming up? I want to let this run continue for next year.
DTM: It feels like we might see that Zozaya match replayed, I’m hoping at York Hall, like you say; do you have a desire to prove a point by beating him clean?
JJ: I do. I would be a liar if I said I didn’t want that. I want him at a place I’ve always wanted to but never wrestled. I know I can beat him clean. I would’ve done at the 229 regardless but I want to show it.
DTM: What’s next?
JJ: I want to build a run right now. I gotta prove to everyone that, when it comes to this scene, I’m the most dangerous heavyweight out there. I got people I want to fight. Then I will get that title.
DTM: Love that. Thanks for your time, man.
JJ: Say Less.
[We shake hands and part ways and, I must say, I'm impressed. Honest, focused and not afraid to do what is needed to get to the top. No bullshit. Top man.]
It's been an incredible six weeks for Will Kaven. First he shocked the Revolution with his victory over Robbie X to earn a place in the Cruiserweight Scramble at the Copper Box for RevPro XII Anniversary. Then he overcame the odds by defeating a star studded field of competition to come away from August 24th with his first ever championship in Revolution Pro Wrestling, your new Undisputed British Cruiserweight Champion. Having defeated Cameron Khai last time out to secure successful defence number 1, and to vanquish any doubt that Kaven is THE cruiserweight now, I made what has become a familiar trip down to Portsmouth to see the 'Ruthless' one in what turned out to be quite possibly my favourite interview I've had the pleasure to conduct. So, grab a coffee, have a read; here's When Dave The Mark Met Will Kaven. Mark Out.
Dave The Mark: So, Sunday, mate [Vs Cameron Khai, defending the Undisputed British Cruiserweight Championship]; is it safe to say that was the biggest match of your career so far? Winning the championship was the biggest moment of your career, undoubtedly, but now having that responsibility and pressure going into the 229, knowing everyone there is willing you to lose and drop the title to him... How did you feel going into it?
Will Kaven: For sure, that was a very high pressure situation. You're probably right, that probably was the biggest match of my career just because of the pressure. The Copper Box was big at the time, but now we are past that and now we are at the point where I have to prove to everyone why I'm in this position. Going into that, there were a lot of nerves for me... high pressure situation for both me and Khai... but at the end of the day I had to prove why I belong and I think I did that.
DTM: It felt like the longest match you've been involved in with RevPro and one of the most high profile as well. I always think the semi-main event of a seven march card is a really difficult spot to be in as there is an expectation that the main event will be an absolute banger, the first match back after the interval is always hot, so to go in between there is this additional pressure. You could tangibly feel the rivalry between you and Cameron in the 229 but you guys tore the house down.
WK: Yeah, I feel I need to make this very clear; Cameron Khai is a super talented wrestler, still very new into his journey, loads of potential, but right now I am The Guy; the division is mine. He is not ready to be in the position I'm in. I think the closing moments of our match show that more than anything else. Even though I have a very high personal disdain for him, I'd love to wrestle him again as I enjoy beating him up. But - I want to make it clear - he's had his chance now and he won't be getting another one. That's it. I'm prepared to take on literally any and all comers from around the world but, with Cameron Khai, it's one and done; no more.
DTM: Do you think Cam is in a similar position to where you were when you came in [in 2022]?
WK: Yeah absolutely and that means he's got a fucking long way to go.
[That popped me and Will and I share our first of many laughs in the interview. I'm reminded why I like this guy so much.]
DTM: That's fair. Very few people have come in to any promotion hotter than you came into RevPro; you beat [Michael] Oku, twice, [Luke] Jacobs and Robbie X all within the space of six weeks. Has that put a bit of a chip on your shoulder that, from that start, it's taken you this long to be able to carry gold in RevPro?
WK: Yeah absolutely. I fucking came in and, effectively, blitzed my way through the division. I took it all as quickly as I could. After the end of 2022, when was it? I had the Two Out Of Three Falls with Robbie X...
DTM: Yeah, Seasons Beatings '22 in St Neots...
WK: Yes, that's it, main event. Big position. Physically the hardest match of my entire life. I cannot describe how much I was struggling in that match. Obviously it went the way it did, Robbie went up two falls to nothing. It was embarrassing for me. I think that set me off for a disastrous 2023. I don't think I picked up a win the whole year.
[Kaven was on the winning side of two Revolution Tag matches and won a tag match with Leyton Buzzard against Michael Oku and Cameron Khai but failed to win any of his six singles matches]
WK: It was very humbling for me and it felt like that it was the indication that I had to step up in 2024, I had to work harder, I have had to do whatever it would take to win matches and that's what I've done and look where I am now.
DTM: Yeah it's interesting, there's loads of analogies there, like the number of bands who smash it with their debut album and then struggle with the "difficult second album" and go away and reinvent their sound for the third album... You see football clubs who are promoted, do well that first season in the new league and then struggle the second season, often getting relegated back to where they came from... I can see that, I can absolutely see that, how momentum can take you on a crest of a wave. I always think that form and results can become habitual and once you start a losing streak, it can be really hard to break. But now, as you say, you've shown a willingness to do whatever it takes to win and the results match.
At the end of the day, that can be the difference between success and failure and the difference between you and your opponents. You've got a Cruiserweight division around you where I don't think many people are prepared to... Let me phrase this as delicately as I can... Sink to the levels you're prepared to would be one way of looking at it... or be prepared to be as ruthless as you are prepared to be might be a fairer way of looking at it.
WK: Hmm...
[Will smiles that charming but sinister smile he has]
WK: Definitely the latter.
[Again we share a laugh]
WK: If you think about how I won the Undisputed British Cruiserweight Championship you could say I sunk to a low, sure, but it was all well within the rules of the match. I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't do anything illegal. I won fair and fucking square.
DTM: You just can't argue with it. I found myself pondering it when I was doing my reflections after the show; you did exactly what you needed to do and simply what no one else was prepared to do. Everyone else was interested in one-upmanship and impressing each other whereas I would argue that you showed you wanted the championship more than anyone else there.
WK: Exactly. Go and watch that match; they are all respecting each other, trying to impress each other with their flashy stuff... But if you watch that match, no-one had respect for me - no-one did - not those in the match, not the crowd. No-one thought anything was going to come from me. They all gave me that fucking big bump, that Spirit Squad motherfucker, that fucked up my neck, like real badly. It's still very much hurt now [ten days later at the time of interview]. They tried to bully me out of the contest and now I run that whole division.
DTM: And to think you've gone into Sunday's contest with Cameron Khai with that banged up neck and come away with the belt because you have done what is required of you to get the result that is needed.
WK: Absolutely and I'll keep doing what is required of me every single time. And until someone steps up who's willing to do what is required of them and take this belt from me, which no-one is going to do, I'll be hanging on to it for a VERY long time.
DTM: Is there anyone in the division that you want to right some wrongs with or anyone with, one eye on some big events coming up, that you're keen to go one on one with? We have Mascara Dorada and Titan confirmed for Global Wars. We have the J Cup...
WK: There is one person in particular who I've never beating in a singles match who, I have pinned in a tag match, but I've never beat one on one and I really don't like him... Leon Slater. He really gets under my skin. He beat me one time, British J Cup last year, he took that from me after I came down to the final two the year before. He took that from me and think about where I am now; I could have had that so much sooner. My personal business is to see to it that he never gets another shot at my belt but, if he does, I will make him pay for that. You mention the British J Cup, let's make it very clear, I am NOT entering myself for it. Champions often do - my first J Cup I beat Luke Jacobs whilst he was champion in the first round, clean as a whistle. But I'm not entering myself.
DTM: No?
WK: Why would I? There'll be eight men and they'll compete for a chance to meet me, as they should have to. Why on earth would I put myself through a gruelling tournament like that? For what? I'm not going to do that. So whoever can get through, they've got me to worry about afterwards.
DTM: Fair play; prioritising your championship over winning the cup. Again, something that past champions haven't been prepared to do. And, more often than not, it's come to bite them on the arse.
WK: That's right - look at Luke Jacobs - he lost to me in the J Cup then he lost his championship to Robbie X - despite the fact that it was me who pinned him at the J Cup and it was me who pinned him in the 229 [Live In London 68] before Robbie X got himself involved to get the decision changed.
DTM: That's interesting, right? Uprising 2022 it should have been you and Luke one on one for that championship.
WK: Absolutely it should have been.
DTM: Yet Robbie and Dan Moloney, somehow, managed to get their way into it.
WK: Absolutely.
[The match became a four way elimination match after Dan Moloney was invited to join the match by Luke Jacobs from ringside]
DTM: There's been injustice here that was never sorted out. You get a hard time off a lot people, mate, we can't beat around the bush there but maybe they need to read this as, yeah you've got a chip on your shoulder but with good reason; you haven't had it fairly and you have certainly not had the opportunities that others have been given time and time again.
WK: Look at the adversity I've had to overcome and look at the chances that others have been given. You say Cameron Khai is in a similar position to where I was in 2022 but has he had to face the same ridicule that I have? No. He has the support of the people behind him and I've never had that. Not once. And I don't want it either.
DTM: Do you find support anywhere in RevPro?
[Will takes a breath and raises his eyebrows, thinking]
DTM: The only person that comes to mind is Gideon [Grey]...
[Will laughs]
WK: Lord Gideon Grey is a very good friend of mine.
DTM: I don't see anyone else coming out to bat for you.
WK: Lord Gideon Grey is actually someone who helped train me and he is someone I've learnt so, so much from. He's a wealth of knowledge. So many tricks that I use came from Lord Gideon Grey. He knows his stuff and someone I get a lot of support from.
DTM: A criminally underrated wrestler too, right?
WK: Absolutely. I never understood why New Japan didn't bring him back. He's an asset to any roster in the world.
DTM: Yeah 100% and he was so over with the Japanese crowd; they bloody loved him!
WK: So popular, as he should be.
DTM: I always think that you are one of those wrestlers who, whereever we go in the country with RevPro, you get different reactions in different towns but the Southampton fans have to be the most vile towards you. Are you looking forward to taking your championship there to stick it to the fans?
[There's that smile again]
WK: Ab-so-lute-ly. You best believe that I CAN NOT fucking wait to walk into the 1865 in Southampton on the 13th October your Undisputed British Cruiserweight Champion. I absolutely CAN NOT wait to rub it in all their faces. Absolutely terrible city - an actual shit hole - I absolutely hate it. The whole rivalry between Portsmouth and Southampton is like a football thing, back in the day it was a dockyard thing... I don't give a fuck about any of that. I just don't like the city. They want to hate me? That's fine. I just can't stand them.
DTM: I've never understood... and I never knew the phrase... a "Skate"? I'm East London born, Essex raised and now, fucking randomly, live in Bedfordshire. I've never heard of a "Skate". But they constantly hurl "You Skate Bastard" at you with absolute piss and bile. I don't get it; you're not even the only wrestler in RevPro from Portsmouth!
WK: Nope. Not at all. Not by a long, long way. But only I get the stick for it, isn't that funny?
DTM: And again, people can ask themselves why you conduct yourself the way you do but I'm not entirely sure if the fans deserve for you to conduct yourself in any other way.
WK: Exactly, you get what you deserve. The want to boo me and stick their middle fingers up at me? They get the same in return. I don't care. I don't wrestle for them. I'm not there for their validation. I'm there for one thing and one thing only and that is my gold, that is all I care about.
DTM: And no-one can deny it, you are THE Undisputed British Cruiserweight Champion, won clean as a whistle within the rules of a Scramble match, defended against Cameron Khai at the 229... And I'm sure you'll love to know that Neon, Jordon Breaks, Leon Slater, the three champions before you, each only managed one successful defence of that title on British soil...
[In fact Breaks' only successful defence was outside the UK]
... and you matched that within seven days of winning the championship.
WK: The thing about that is, when you look at the history of that championship, so many big names, so many established stars have held that belt, and I feel like that for the last year or so it's been in limbo where no one can hang onto it. It's been up in the air, especially with Neon spending all his time in Mexico. But now, with me at the helm, and as you said in one of your articles, the whole division is about to be redefined in my image. Fun fact as well, of all the champions in RevPro at the moment, given all the belts changed hands at the Copper Box, I am actually the longest reigning champion in RevPro and the one with the most defences.
[We both laugh at this]
DTM: I love that mate, and you know what, it's undeniable and Undisputed.
WK: Just like I am.
DTM: And between you and me mate, long may that continue as I will continue to be one champion of Will Kaven in Revolution Pro Wrestling, even if I am the only fucking one.
WK: And I appreciate that. You are genuinely my only fan I think.
[The laughter continues]
DTM: We all need one champion mate, one person to prop us up.
WK: Appreciate it mate.
And that concluded my interview with Will, an interview where I found myself laughing more than in any interview I've done previously and one in which I was likely the most comfortable I have been too. He's 'Ruthless', sure, he's a 'Disruptor', absolutely, and he loves being a 'Spoiler' to those fans who have had it in for him since Day 1. But I like the guy and I get it. Bring on the hate, bring on the heat, bring on the ridiculous chants - whatever you want - knock yourself out. Kaven is here and he ain't going anywhere. I hope he holds that belt until each and every fan who has tried to make his life hell is begging for someone to knock him off his perch. I'll be quietly cheering his corner the whole time.
Let's rewind back to Thursday 29th August, five days post-Copper Box and the day before RevPro and GWF's Double Impact weekender in Berlin. I found myself heading west on the A421 for the short journey to Buckinghamshire's beautiful Foxcote Wood around the gorgeous reservoir for some peace and reflection with the 'Deadly One' Nightshade to discuss RevPro XII Anniversary Show at the Copper Box Arena. A calm, placid and serene spot to discuss a match which was anything but. So here we go, another Saturday and another interview for all of the fans and fellow Marks of Revolution Pro Wrestling; here is When Dave The Mark Met Nightshade.
Dave The Mark: My first question just has to be; how are you feeling?
Nightshade: I am feeling absolutely battered!
[A smile immediately forms on Nightshade's face as she says this]
N: Even though my body is feeling weak, my mind isn't; I'm feeling exhilarated. I wish there could have been a round two as I would happily do it all over again.
DTM: That's great to hear!
N: Just with a different outcome this time.
[That smile is convincing but you can see the remnants of the cut across Nightshade's head as a reminder of the ordeal she went through in the No Disqualification 5 Vs 5 war she fought on Saturday]
DTM: Yeah... It feels like... From a fan's perspective, the result on Saturday felt less important than the opportunity to get some licks in and get some vengeance.
N: Oh yeah, definitely. Even though we didn't come out on top, we didn't get the three count, we definitely settled a few scores. Each and every single one of us gave our all and we certainly put up a fight for the Cut Throat Collective.
DTM: It was one of the most talked about matches of the night, of All In weekend and in the days since. What an advert it was for British and Irish professional wrestling. It felt like, coming into it, that the Cut Throat Collective have always had the numbers advantage - they have always had the last laugh but on Saturday, it did not look like any of them were laughing.
N: Oh definitely. The anticipation for a match like that is always quite difficult - there's a lot of pressure going into it. There's that big build, the Cut Throat Collective have been on each and every show and has had the advantage over us each and every time. We certainly had a lot to prove in that match. I'm just really pleased that the match absolutely delivered the expectations and that isn't always an easy thing to achieve.
DTM: I'd go further than that - if I'm honest - I think the expectation for this was one of the highest expectations levels of all the matches on the Copper Box card and it didn't just meet the expectations - it over-delivered on them.
N: Thank you!
[You can really see what this match meant to Nightshade with the warmest and most sincere smile]
DTM: Now, obviously we need to go back a little bit further because at one stage, it felt like you would be on the other side of that match.
N: Yeah...
[That smile fades far quicker than it appeared]
DTM: How did it come about with you, Lizzy, Mercedez, Nina and Safire?
N: So I was pitched the idea that the women really wanted to take control under any means necessary. I could have waited for more opportunities but I could not think of a better way than to have old and new faces coming together to really make a statement. And that is exactly what we did. We went out there at the 229 and we destroyed everybody.
[I'm surprised to see a smile and hear pride in Nightshade's voice as she says this and it prompts me to abandon my next question, which was to ask if she had any regrets, or if she felt they went too far, as she obviously does not]
N: We cleared everyone in our path; everyone who tried to restore some form of order we took out and that was an amazing feeling.
[Wow]
N: Even though we were all there to deliver the same message, we are all totally different wrestlers that came together for the same purpose. I was really excited to be a bit part of this faction. But as the faction went on, there were more and more differences between the girls and ultimately, in Stevenage, I had the ultimate betrayal and they turned their back on me... And Alex Windsor put me through that table.
DTM: Alex had an interesting month, right? She came out in St Neots and it looked like she made the save for Anita Vaughan and all those who were being attacked by the Collective and it looked like she would spearhead the women's resistance. But then in Stevenage it went down very differently. Do you feel that was premeditated or was there an opportunist element to Alex's actions, for her to be a part of this movement?
N: I think she came out with genuinely good intentions in St Neots. But I think she saw the traction we were getting, saw the buzz that was created and she got cocky and wanted to get in on this. If you can't beat them, join them? Why do I want to stand alone when I can stand alongside some of the best wrestlers I know in the country? It's unfortunate she decided to take that out on me - I guess there's not a place for everybody - but the moment she put me through that table, I knew it was game on and that I wasn't going to hold back. And even though being on the team for Team RevPro was different - I mean I'm not used to hearing that support and that crowd reaction - it really helped push me to give the Cut Throat Collective what they deserved.
DTM: Did Kanji and Rhio in particular need any convincing of your loyalties of whether they could trust you or does trust not even really matter in a war like you had on Saturday?
N: I don't think trust matters. We were all there for our own personal gain and we were all there to make a statement to ourselves or against certain members of the Cut Throat Collective who we wanted to inflict more pain on that others. We were all Team RevPro because we all wanted the same thing and we weren't going to turn our backs on one another; we all wanted to well and truly destroy the Cut Throat Collective. And even though that wasn't achieved, we knew there was strength in numbers and we had to have each others' backs.
DTM: It's that old adage of 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend', right?
N: Definitely.
DTM: And it's safe to say that, regardless of the final result, the Cut Throat Collective came out of the Copper Box weaker than they went in. I'll be very interested to see what condition is Lizzy Evo is in tomorrow in Berlin [Vs Jessy Jay for the GWF Women's Championship, which Lizzy in fact won] after what was one of the most physical matches I've ever seen.
N: She will definitely be paying the price and won't be on top form. When you have a match like this [at the Copper Box] only a couple of days ago, with chairs, kendo sticks, tables, thumbtacks... You know, nine other competitors in that ring... It is hard to feel anywhere near human right now. That has to impact her performance going into those shows.
DTM: And we have a 229 show this Sunday which is the first RevPro since they debuted to not feature the Cut Throat Collective which I think speaks volumes to the damage done.
N: Oh yes, definitely.
DTM: At what point were aware that Gisele Shaw was going to be fifth member of the team? There were question marks as to whether or not you guys would get the fifth woman to stand beside you.
N: It got pretty close, I just admit, it got pretty close. We always knew we needed a fifth, you know? We had to even the numbers game as much as possible and that search wasn't easy but we brought Gisele out and I think it was a fantastic addition as she has her own history with RevPro and a lot of the girls in that match
DTM: Yeah, it felt like you either needed someone who was going to fight for the cause or fight with aggression against those specific opponents. In Gisele Shaw you had both; she's synonymous with the Undisputed British Women's Championship and she has some serious history, particularly with Alex Windsor.
N: Definitely. I think she was the perfect fifth member and the perfect surprise.
DTM: So looking last the Copper Box, do you feel you got closure with the Cut Throat Collective?
N: I do and I don't; I'm glad we were able to have this five on five, incredibly hard hitting match but I still feel as though there is upset from myself regarding the Cut Throat Collective. I still feel I have a lot to give and, for me, it isn't over yet. There's definitely more fight to give.
DTM: Is there anyone in particular you are desperate to get your hands on again?
N: My sights have been fixed on Alex Windsor; she was the person who ultimately kicked me out of the group. She's the person who put me through that table, totally uncalled for, just to prove to the group that she was willing and able to make a statement and do whatever it takes. I lot of my aggression was directed at her during that match but, really, the entire group... The fact that they were so willing to turn their back on me...
[I could really see at this stage that Nightshade was trying to keep her cool but I could feel her seething]
N: I need to prove to each and every one of them that that was a big mistake and that, actually, Nightshade is not someone to be overlooked. Lizzy Evo made me bleed...
DTM: Oh my... so much blood, so much blood.
N: So much blood. I would love to get back in the ring with her, repay that someway. Really, though, all of those girls have it coming.
[The smile is back and I'm reminded that, as lovely as she has been to me, Nightshade is NOT someone you would ever want to cross]
DTM: It feels like they are going to be around for a long time to come. There was a feeling that, with five egos like that, that there might be an implosion by now, especially with how quick they were to turn on you, but there has been no sign of it at all. With the crowning of Mina Shirakawa as the new Undisputed British Women's Champion, you have to imagine that that is where their focus will turn now.
[A sigh and a nod from Nightshade]
DTM: You had your championship shot at Dani Luna in Southampton and came incredibly close against an in-form champion. Is there a desire now from you to get into a position to challenge Mina for the championship? Is that something you can focus on with the Collective on the scene?
N: Absolutely, there is nothing I would like more than to wrestle Mina for that championship. I wrestled her on my first ever tour of Japan with Tokyo Joshi Pro back in 2019 and we are both very, very different competitors since then and I'd love to wrestle her on home soil. That championship has such a legacy, you just have to look at the incredible people who have held it and I'd love to put my name up there. I know the Cut Throat Collective will be going after it too but there's too many chefs there to actually make that a reality.
DTM: Yeah, that's something that Rhio and I discussed when I met with her last month [When Dave The Mark Met Rhio, one article below this one] How the loyalties will be tested if one of them was to carry the belt is fascinating. Can they put the needs of one person within the Collective ahead of the individual egos at play. You'd imagine that one of them is next in line after picking up that win.
N: Sadly so but we will see.
DTM: One thing your match really highlighted is just how blessed we are across the UK and Ireland with incredible wrestlers and that RevPro has built a roster to rival any from any period of British and Irish wrestling past or present.
N: Yeah, absolutely, I couldn't agree more. That's why we brought the group together to bring the Cut Thought Collective down. Next time we can be better prepared. Next time we will have seen those cracks appear. They are an incredibly strong team, as individuals and they are even stronger together, but at some point their luck will run out.
DTM: At some point there has to be a chance to divide and conquer.
N: As you say, if one of them was to be successful and win the championship, it could be the worst thing to ever to happen to them.
DTM: I get that. Whilst their focus has been ok the benefit of the collective, it has been easy to be cohesive, but when the focus goes on protecting the needs of one individual over the needs of everyone else... Something tells me that the women in that group are not going to be happy to sit on the sidelines and play cheerleader.
N: Absolutely!
DTM: Well it's certainly an exciting time for Revolution Pro Wrestling and British and Irish wrestling. I can't wait to see Nightshade back in a RevPro ring and hopefully, with a chance to get your hands on one of these five women.
N: Thank you very much, I very much look forward to it.
What a wonderful chance to speak so openly and honestly about what will go down as one of the most violent matches of the year in professional wrestling. Nightshade is not done with the CTC, that is for sure, and her focus remains the same as it was when she burst into the 229 back in May and attacked Dani Luna and Chantal Jordan before returning with Safire, Lizzy, Mercedez and Nina; to get to the top of the division by any means necessary. Now there are some personal grudges to address along the way and I am so looking to each and every clash we see going into the Autumn and Winter of 2024.
Let's rewind back to Monday 22nd July and I found myself heading up the M6 to the Lake District for a stroll with the wonderful Rhio to discuss her time in Revolution Pro Wrestling so far. A beautiful part of the country and an incredibly tranquil and serene location to chat with one of the nicest, warmest but toughest people I have met in my time as a RevPro Mark. Lots was discussed and and it was wonderful to get her insight into all manner of things. So here we go, another Saturday and another RevPro interview for all of the Revolutionaries out there, here is When Dave The Mark Met Rhio...
Dave The Mark: So I suppose we should start at the beginning, right? It was a year ago that we first saw you in RevPro at the Copper Box, RevPro's 11th Anniversary. I wondered what your memories of that experience were?
Rhio: Do you know what, I think it was... even though I wrestle in London quite a bit... it was going out knowing I'd never wrestled at RevPro before and being, like, "Will people know who I am? Will they recognise me? Will they care?" Going out and being, like, I've got some work to do here and show people who I really am and what you can expect from me if I'm to continue to wrestle at RevPro afterwards.
DTM: Did you feel a reaction when you came out?
R: Yes but when I've watched it back I've realised it was a bigger reaction that I felt at the time. It was like "Woah, people do know who I am" and I was really happy with that, but when I watched it back I realised it was even more than I'd realised at the time.
DTM: Like sitting in the crowd, 100% I felt it. There's this image that's stuck with me all this time of when you go down on to your knee in the middle of the ring, and you've got eight other women standing around you, watching you, and I'll include the photo in the write up from this, as I think it's brilliant, as these eight woman are looking at you like you you are a BIG deal.
R: That'll be great if that's added as that'll make me smile.
DTM: And it's interesting you say that... Like you work a lot of different BritWres shows, with lots based in the South, which RevPro predominantly is, but you said there was a nervousness about how fans would react to you. Since you've been involved this year, over the last few months, how have you found the fans reaction to you?
R: Oh it's incredible, I feel like I've been there for the whole time, you know what I mean? Everyone's been so welcoming and you do never know because some promotions, their fans are loyal to them and then there's the wrestling fans who only really watch their company and WWE or AEW and they'll not know you. So you never know if you've got the fans who are travelling around or following on social media or those who just don't know who you are, you know? But since coming into RevPro, I just feel like I've been a part of it forever.
DTM: I get that, like I'm lucky enough to get to go around the country watching RevPro so I get a different vibe for the different crowds in the different towns and different cities and your first singles match was in Stevenage which can be quite a hard crowd simply because it's quite a big crowd and it's predominantly made up of people who go to all Stevenage shows but don't go into London for the 229 shows and... I wouldn't say they are less aware... But you've got less of the key figureheads in the crowd, or you have them but they are more spread out, where you know they are going to know everyone on the card and be loud and receptive, hit their chants and give them a big welcome, you know? So that first Epic Encounter with Alex Windsor was a little bit of a baptism of fire but you handled it amazingly and the reactions you got were amazing. I certainly felt that from the crowd.
R: Yeah, like you knew when you are going against someone like Alex Windsor that you don't know how the crowd is going to go as, for all her actions recently, you can't take away from what she's done in RevPro and what she's done and continues to do elsewhere. But I felt like the people knew who I was but when we went back there the second time I felt the change from the first time.
DTM: Yeah 100% and in that first match you did something which is special. Alex Windsor has this INCREDIBLE record in RevPro - she has only ever been beaten one on one by three women, Jinny, Dani Luna and yourself. That is some record.
R: That is some record, bloody hell. That's another thing that makes me smile. It's a realisation thing; I sometimes don't sit back and think about the things like that. Wow, I'm one of not event a handful of people to do this. Sometimes us wrestlers we move so quickly that we don't let things resgister and stop to enjoy the moment. Now you've said that it's really made me smile as that is a record that no one can take away from me.
DTM: 100% - like I'm a massive stats guy so I love stuff like this and RevPro is great for it as their are so many legacy feuds and rivalries that the stats really add something to it. With Alex it has felt for a long time that, whomever can get that win over her will be ready made. And once Dani got that at Uprising last year and then in that unbelievable Dog Collar Match it comes down to who will be the next one, the next big challenger and that was yourself. You got your Undisputed British Women's Championship match at the 229, it came a month later than expected due to Dani's travel issues the first time, so you ended up in the ring with Lucia Lee. That was the first time you two had faced, was it not?
R: I believe it was, yeah.
DTM: And since then you've tagged with her as well because obviously that was the show [Rhio Vs Luna for the title] where you main evented, put on an incredible contest, one of the best 229 main events I've seen in all my time going...
R: Aww, thank you so much
[Rhio's smile grows even wider]
DTM: And then the shit kind of hit the fan, didn't it? With the arrival of who we now know as the Cut Throat Collective.
R: Yeah.
[And, like that, Rhio's smile is gone and that intensity we see in her in the ring feels just below the surface]
R: That's the thing isn't it. Me and Dani went into it, she knew what I could do and I knew what she could do and we went in there to literally beat each other into a pulp and we absolutely did that to one another and, you know, the better woman won on the night. A bit of a sore one for me to take. But I'll rebound from it and I'll come back around for it - it's a championship I have my eyes on. And once I have my eyes set in it is is normally just a matter of time before I get it. I've never missed lets say.
[The smile is back]
R: Even if it's a delayed thing or even if I have to take a few knockbacks - I WILL get there and it WILL happen. But for us to go that long with each other and for us to be in the main event in what was my third singles match in RevPro and I'm main eventing the 229 and that is a thing in itself, you know?
DTM: That is a really big deal. Like if you look at the women who have been trusted to main event a RevPro show it is a really small lost, it's pretty much exclusively Gisele Shaw, Dani Luna and Alex Windsor. Something that struck me from the moment I first saw you is that there is a real pedigree to you as a women's wrestler, as an accomplished wrestler and someone with real star power so the moment your match was announced, it was one where, everyone there was like "it has to be the main event, doesn't it? It just has to be" and then, yes, you were put in the main event slot but you two put on a MAIN EVENT match and that is something as the 229 is renowned for the premium product of British wrestling on a monthly basis and I always talk about it as the best value pro wrestling you are going to get anywhere and you guys absolutely delivered.
R: Well, thank you, I appreciate that.
[The smile widens]
DTM: And then with the Cut Throat Collective... That must have been a really difficult moment as you have just headlined this show, put on this incredible performance, the crowd is on their feet applauding you guys and you and Dani had a nice moment in the ring at the end of the match and, like you say, it only feels like a matter of time before you get to to run that back as you took Dani to her absolute limits. I mean if ever anyone was going to prove that Dani Luna does, in fact, die, it felt like it was you in that moment. And then it get really sourly and sorely cut off by this invasion. What was that like at the time for you?
R: I think its always one of them where, I don't even know how long we were battering one another, you have the respectful moment, and that was it. You know, the crowd are happy, they're on their feet, they're ready to go home after a great show and then you've got people who...
[Rhio takes a deep breath]
R: Any time you see people in a vulnerable state and that's when you get them...
[Rhio shakes her head]
Like, you know, both with me and Dani, we have proven, whether it be at RevPro or elsewhere, that we could hold our own. You know, there is levels to it and, you know, she Doesn't Die, I'm Unbreakable. You know, just let us have a rest at least. Just give us a minute. To attack people after that kind of situation... That's just slight. Like, it's just shady, innit?
DTM: Yeah.
[It's nice we can both laugh about this but you can feel Rhio is incensed at the memory]
R: So what what are you proving, like? You've jumped us when there's five of you and two of us after we've just beaten each other literally to the wall. And then you come out and jump us and start talking about how you're overlooked and underappreciated and all this. I mean, what do you want us to do about that? You're not overlooked and underappreciated; just work harder. I came into RevPro, I beat the former champion on my first singles match, one of the most prestigious champions in RevPro history, and then I was supposed to wrestle the champion but, whatever, that got delayed. So again, I wrestle a Contender. Then I wrestle the champion and that was me putting that work in to get to that point. I didn't just come in and start throwing chairs around and causing chaos and I'd be like, "I'm overlooked, I deserve this."
DTM: It's, um, it's definitely an interesting approach, isn't it? Because like you say, you were patient. It took a long time for you to to come to RevPro, it feels, from when you first started wrestling. And, obviously, you've held the ICW Championship for an incredible amount of time, PROGRESS Women's Champion, and then it just felt like a a matter of time before you got to RevPro. But there was, you know, a patience level, waiting for it to happen, and then it very much feels like these ladies didn't have that patience level; they were gonna make it happen themselves. And it's, I mean, it's definitely worked. We've seen an awful lot of that group of people over the last couple of months, and it's been incredible for me as a fan to sit and watch, but it must feels like there's some real kind of personal rivalry to it now and it feels like it's all building towards the Copper Box Arena and this 5 vs 5 match of the Cut Throat Collective versus, effectively, a team RevPro. Is that something you've got your eye on? Is that something that you'd like to be a part of?
R: Definitely. I mean, I think the Copper Box is the place to do it. I think it's going to be busier than last year and I think the show is just going to be at another high standard which I can't wait for. But I think Dani is a champion, she's going to have whoever she will have and, whoever it's going to be, she will have her hands full. So it's just more of a.. like... if that is where they want to take it then that's fine but they can't blame us because I'll fight fire with fire, if they wanna see that side of me, then they'll get it. But I won't be blamed for the consequences of it all because, like you say, they just keep appearing in these shows now so I bet they're happy and I bet they don't feel overlooked anymore because they're on pretty much every every RevPro show at the minute and still up to their usual stuff.
[Rhio sighs in frustration]
I just don't get what attacking other people does at all. They're attacking people who have absolutely nothing to do with the situation and that's just something I can't understand, you know?
DTM: There was definitely some lines crossed, weren't there? Like, with all due respect, you and Dani, you're both fighters. You're both wrestlers. You you can handle yourselves. And, yeah, it's proper shady to get in the ring after you guys have just put on an absolute banger and attack you guys, but that's one level of shadiness. For Safire Reed to headbutt Sarah Hatch, for them to pin down Francesca Oliver and for Nightshade to hit that splash on her... That's, like, taking it to a whole new level, isn't it?
R: That's what I'm saying, like, what have they done? They're just doing their job as part of the show. They've done nothing. And attacking them, what does that do? It doesn't do anything, but that doesn't get you a championship match does it? And it shouldn't anyway; that's not behavior that is acceptable. Like, they're just women who have turned up, they've done the job, and that was it. Like you said, there's levels to it. That is a level of shade innit? But I think it needs... It needs handling, basically.
DTM: Yeah. I completely understand. And, you know, they were rewarded in a sense because Nightshade got a championship match down in Southampton. And, to be fair to her, she had actually picked up a couple of wins before that, prior to the Cut Throat Collective, but the optics there weren't great. But then, they also showed their colours because, through her loss there and her loss at Raw Deal that led to her being eliminated from the group, and it just goes to show that the Cut Throat nature works within the group as well as outside of it.
R: This is it. So, like, how how can you be part of that group, confidently, knowing that that's what you've done? Like, they they were all online laughing when they kicked Nightshade out and sharing like a group chat where they kicked her out and they clapped it all and all that. But, surely to me, in my head, maybe this is why I'm usually like a lone wrestler, I don't do well in groups or teams or whatever, but in my head there, I'm thinking, right, if that's what we've done to somebody, then they're gonna do that to us. Like you said, the Cut Throat runs within the group. So, one slip up and you're out. And who's the one deciding who's in, who's out, who's the main ringleader?
[You can really feel Rhio has had this built up for some time as this is becoming a rant now but it's good to see her get it out of her system]
R: If their heads gone having to be on a swivel because of maybe the underdogs of the group, kind of, want any kind of pack mentality but who's the alpha female of the group? And it just to me there's no safety, so what's the point? You've got strength in numbers but then, only to a degree that you have to make sure that you are fully performing and not dropping the hammer and letting anything go, cos at any point you're next if that is the case. I can't understand why you wanna be part of that group. And then when it, you know, inevitably, comes to a women's championship opportunity, then I don't know how the others see that going down? If one of you becomes a champion because, presumably everyone in that group wants to be the champion... Well you can't all be the champion at the same time, you know?
DTM: Five big characters there, isn't it? Five big characters, five big reputations, they all know what it is to be a champion. Nina is the belt collector, right? It feels like a very, very volatile situation. What doesn't feel like a volatile situation is, potentially, the group that could face them because Kanji seems to have had everybody's back. Lucia Lee has really stepped up, not backed down, and shown she can work well with others. Anita Vaughn has been brought into the situation. She's had a couple of dealings with them. So there's a lot going on there with with a kind of team RevPro. You said you don't play well with others, but do you feel like those women are people that you can trust?
R: Definitely, yes. Like, even with Kanji, we've battled for other championships in other places and stuff. And I think with me and Kanji very much we both understand, at the end of the day, that we're wrestlers, were always going to be looking for the win; you're looking for the win and then you look for the championship and then you're looking to defend it. So we know that, but we also respect the fact that... like I said earlier, the best woman won on the night that night and, that's painful for me to say, when it was me and Dani Luna. I was not the best woman that night. You go back to the drawing board, you work hard, you know, you work on yourself and get to that point again. I think we [Rhio and Kanji] both share that common kind of thought process. There's a way to do it and that is not how the Cut Throat Collective are going about it. But I feel I can definitely trust Kanji.
[Rhio pauses]
I CAN trust Lucia because I know she's just working to get the recognition and get out of the Contender spot and into a roster spot, a regular roster spot and then, Anita Vaughan, I don't really know. Like I might think I can trust her but I I've not seen much of her and I've not wrestled with her at RevPro or anything. So that one will be one that I think I'll cross that bridge if and when I come to it, I think. But I'm also confident in myself, though, with that. I mean, she surely isn't going to JOIN the Cut Throat Collective, is she, so I feel I probably can trust her. So, yeah, I put that on my record now, and I hope it doesn't come out to bite me.
DTM: I suppose you've got that commonality in terms of... you've all got the same foe, and sometimes that draws people together, doesn't it? Because with all due respect, you're not gonna be able to take on the Cut Throat Collective by yourself, so you're gonna need allies. And when they've, kind of, targeted pretty much every woman in any match because... you know... you look at poor Ronnie Knocks who, you know, had her first singles match in in the 229 earlier this month. And, you know, she's defeated by Mercedes Blaze, which is something that, you know, fair enough. Like you say, there's kind of levels of experience to it, as well, and Mercedez has that experience level over Ronnie. But then to get the boots put into her and be literally kicked out of the ring afterwards is just unnecessary and an extra level of spitefulness. So you've got to be able to trust in people to to be able to have your back because there's too many of them to face by yourself.
R: This is it. Like, you know, as much as I'd like to think I can handle myself, everyone knows there is strength in numbers and I guess there's a strong vibe. Like, I'm not gonna deny it. I don't agree with the way they went about stuff and I'm more than happy to be part of the "Team RevPro". Like, if there is a team RevPro that gets to go against them then I want to be a part of that. But at the same time, I do recognize the people that are in that group and what they're all capable of. And, yes, like you said, that's a strong five, there's no way that you can take those on on your own. Like, I think we struggle even if it was just, like, me, Kanji, Lucia and Anita because again, we're still missing that one person. I think it has to be 5 on 5. We can't go into that with 3 or 4... We need 5.
DTM: Yeah. You you need all 5 of them in the ring, don't you? Because if you haven't as we've seen, when you've got 3 of them in the ring or 2 of them in the ring, then the others are all nearby, and they're all just waiting for their opportunity to take advantage of a referee distraction or, you know, interference in the match in one way or another. We we saw that in St Neots, we saw that in Sheffield and we saw that in Stevenage. They're a group that have experience and they know how to get the job done by any means necessary.
R: This is it. Yeah. Like, when you're in there, like and you can see the they're very good at the pack mentality. You can see them circling, like hyenas circle. When you think you can tackle one, there's another one ready, then there's another one in there. They just seem to come out of nowhere when we start. So we definitely need to be able to have eyes on all five of them, have them there [in the ring] and have 5 on 5, it can't be like a couple of singles matches, it needs 5 on 5 so we can keep keep our own.
DTM: In terms of the Copper Box, we thought we had Dani Luna versus Stephanie Vaquer, and, obviously that's had to change now with her getting her opportunity to to join WWE full time. When that was a match that was confirmed... You've got a little bit of history with both those women... Was that something where you were keeping an eye on it with the view that you could be in line to be the challenger of whoever comes out on top?
R: Definitely. Yeah. I was so excited. When I saw that being announced, I was like, oh, here we go. Here we go.
And then congratulations to Stephanie Vaquer. She 100% deserves it. She's another superstar, so looking forward to seeing what she does now with her future in WWE and stuff. But yes, like knowing that I've wrestled both of those and unfortunately in both of those, I've actually not pick up the win but I've again, like I said before, I go back to the drawing board, I see what went wrong, and I fix it. So that was my plan was to wrestle both of them again and change the result. So I won't get to do that with Stephanie for the current time being. You never know down the line what could happen but Dani Luna definitely would like to do it again. And yes, whomever won, I wanted to challenge the championship straight away, you know, like, get it on. But we'll see. I'm very intrigued to know who her replacement is. It's big boots to fill there but, with RevPro, I'm sure they'll fill them.
DTM: This is it. Like, Andy Quildan's got an incredible track record of... When somebody isn't available that he had promised... Even though he doesn't need to, you know, tickets have been sold, and people are already excited for other things... He will always go to the biggest possible replacement that he can purely from a fan service point of view and because he wants to deliver what he has promised. So I'm confident that it's gonna be someone of a similar calibre, somebody who can, like, you say step into into some big shoes. And if Dani comes out on top, then Dani versus Rhio II is something I am desperate to see. And if it's, another name and it's somebody who can prize the Undisputed British Women's Championship away from Dani, then there's there's an opportunity there for for that person to come looking for a challenger, and there's nobody better placed in RevPro than yourself. I think you and Kanji are at the very, very top of that list in terms of record, pedigree and experience and who has come closer on previous opportunities to test a champion to their limits? I'm sure it is also something that the Cut Throat Collective will have their eyes on, but even more incentive for a "Team RevPro" to overcome them.
R: Exactly that. Because you see the thing is as well, like, me and Kanji like we've already been in that position because we both got to wrestle Stephanie Vaquer. So Andy Q knew who he wanted to put in against Stephanie Vaquer and, whatever his reasons were, he trusted us to be the ones and so we already know that we have huge trust in the way we go about things, and again, he sees the way we just work hard and build our way up like anyone should.
DTM: You're definitely doing it right.
R: Whichever name is going to be the one that comes in, you know, let's be honest, they are going to have the same star power as Stephanie Vaquer. So I'm not having anyone in that group going to go ahead of me. And if, like, it's Alex Windsor that gets the chance, Lizzie Evo's not gonna put up with that. I've known her LONG enough; she's not going to accept that at all. You've got Nina Samuels and the Nina Samuels Show, she will want to be the main character so she's not going to accept it either. Safire is young but she's not going to accept it. Mercedez wants the glory, the lights and the glitz, so she's not going to accept it. I mean, I don't want to be stirring anything...
[I smile and laugh]
R: But if it's put to the Cut Throat Collective that there's a title shot there for one of them, who's going to be the one?
DTM: Yeah. That's it's a volatile situation... that is a very volatile situation. And like you say, we're not here to stir things up. But do you know what? If we can put a cat amongst the pigeons with that group, I feel like they deserve it given how they've treated everybody else in RevPro since they arrived.
So it's a really exciting time going into the Copper Box, and it's fantastic to see that we're we're guaranteed two big women's matches on that card. I very much enjoyed the last couple of months seeing a much bigger focus on the women's division, and, you know, you've been a huge part of that as has Kanji in the multiple appearances that she's put in and, sadly, as have the Cut Throat Collective, but it's it's a great time to be a women's wrestler in British professional wrestling, and it's a great time to be a women's wrestler in RevPro. So it's an even better time for us fans to enjoy it all.
R: This is it. It is exciting. The women are getting so many opportunities and the women are delivering in those opportunities. Their getting main event slots and they've deserved it. They're not being given it, they've earned it. And the fans are demanding it, like you say, they want to see these matches main event and their interested in the storylines. That's what is most exciting about it. Through hard work and through support of fans like yourself, we've now got to a point where people are actively wanting the women's storyline. They're wanting to see them more. They want to see the women's matches more. So, yeah, it's an amazing time, and I love it. But, again, hard work, and it's the support of people like yourself. So thank you.
DTM: Appreciate it. You're more than welcome. It's absolutely my pleasure. And it's something that I'm incredibly happy to see, like, talking with fans before shows, during shows, after shows, in WhatsApp groups, on social media, and seeing how much of a buzz there is for the women's stories. Like, we did a podcast this week where it was, like, answering RevPro fans' questions and multiple questions were coming in about directions for women in the division. [Cromulent Wrestling - This Is A Revolution, Episode 6]
And and it's great to be able to have these conversations. And like you say, none of it is tokenism. None of it is you know, we have to make sure there's a women's match on the card or anything like that. It's all about putting top quality professional wrestlers, male or female, into spots where they can take the opportunities. And the simple fact is that every time this year that a woman has been put into a spot in RevPro, whoever it is, she has absolutely taken it. And from that, a division has really kind of started to be born, and it's something which is probably, for me, the most exciting thing about Revolution Pro Wrestling at the moment. We can we can get excited for Luke Jacobs and Michael Oku, and we can get excited for things like Ethan Allen and Connor Mills and these great stories that are being told, but there is equal excitement for the Cut Throat Collective and "Team RevPro". It feels like it's thriving, and that's something that can only benefit everybody.
R: That's it. Yeah. It's definitely thriving. The wrestlers the fans, everyone who's part of the show is going to benefit because you're going to get to see some world class wrestling. I think it's incredible and I'm so excited to see where, not even just this year goes, but the future and not just in RevPro but everywhere as we are in a boom of professional wrestling with so much wrestling through WWE, AEW through all the independent companies... at the end of the day we are all wrestling fans aren't we, so the more wrestling the better.
DTM: 100%. Competition between companies drives everybody to do better. It increases more opportunities for the wrestlers. There's more shows for fans to go to and enjoy. [It] literally benefits everybody and it's it's a great time for it, and I think you're absolutely right, I do feel like we're in a boom period and it's wonderful to be right at the center of it.
R: It is. It is a good feeling. We're we're gonna keep that going and continue that and make the heights higher and higher, make the shows better and better, to make sure that everybody is having an amazing time, and that's the the main thing. We all love wrestling, so let's enjoy all of it.
DTM: Amazing. And what better place than there to bring it to an end? Thank you so much for your time, mate. I do really, really appreciate it. A wonderful chat with an amazing wrestler, a truly lovely person, in a beautiful part of the world. What better way to spend the first day of the Summer holidays, eh?
R: Thank you so much for coming and for supporting us, I can't appreciate it enough.
With the announcement that JJ Gale and Tomohiro Ishii are to lock horns at the Copper Box Arena for Revolution Pro Wrestling's 12th Anniversary Show it felt the perfect time for me to travel back down to the Portsmouth School of Wrestling for a catch up with 'The Heart and Soul of Revolution Pro Wrestling'. It is Sunday 21st July and JJ has a rare Sunday out of the ring but is putting in the hard yards at the school he calls home. Eternally grateful to the guy for welcoming me in for a chat (again) between sessions and so, a year after we first met, here's When Dave The Mark Met JJ Gale II....
Dave The Mark: Thanks for taking the time, man, it's always much appreciated and I guess the first thing is... It's mad that it has been a year since we did this! We were on the Road To The Copper Box then and we kind of phrased it as the biggest match of your career, against Fujita at RevPro XI Anniversary and a big milestone on the path to Zack Sabre Jr that came at Uprising; so I guess my first question really is, looking back at the Copper Box last year, does that match feel like it WAS the biggest match of your career at that point?
JJ Gale: Oh yeah, hands down. It had all the ingredients to be; biggest crowd I've ever wrestled in front of, most eyes on it - as well as the fans in the building - the whole world was watching England that week. For me, I say it's WrestleMania Weekend Part 2, you know?
DTM: 100%
JJ: When WrestleMania is in April, the whole world's eyes are on it and then, when it's All In, the eyes are on it again. I understood the importance of it, so 100% was the biggest match of my career at that point.
DTM: And obviously you got the big win, so the biggest win of your career as well, which gave you what you wanted; you got Zack Sabre Jr at Crystal Palace last year. What are your thoughts looking back on that one as, for me, that felt like a massive moment in your trajectory?
JJ: Yeah I feel like that whole year long story was the JJ Gale coming out party. Starting at the Rumble and eliminating Zack and then Fujita at the Copper Box and then the final part of that was getting Zack Sabre Jr and getting redemption for what happened at the Rumble [Zack attacked JJ after JJ eliminated had eliminated him].
Apart from all the bad blood there was also a point I wanted to prove and I feel like I did that by hanging with one of the best in the world. Yeah, I was annoyed that he took the Revolution Rumble away from me and that played a part in everything but I feel like I had a chip on my shoulder... I still feel like I have a chip on my shoulder... To prove who I am and where my place is in British wrestling.
DTM: I get that completely.
JJ: It was my first chance to... like, here's one of the best wrestlers in the world and we can have a great match which people are going to enjoy and talk about and I'm not going to sink.
DTM: Oh absolutely, and, if I remember correctly, you guys went on first, right?
JJ: Yes, yes we did. And, you know, they always say that, if you're not the main event, the most important spot is to open the show. If we had gone out and had a stinker then it sets the wrong tone for the rest of the night. Looking back on that, though, I think the thing I was pleasantly surprised at was the crowd reaction towards me. Zack is one of the best wrestlers in the world, he's not here all the time, he's an attraction... So I kind of expected to be eaten alive by the Crystal Palace fans and, actually, I feel it was nicely split. I feel like a lot of the guys there, like yourself, have been there with me on this journey from when I was a Contender, or early on in my career, to my main roster run... I feel like you've really been with me on this journey and you really have got me to where I am at this point as, if you didn't care about my matches then I wouldn't be given these opportunities. So it felt like a really important moment for me, to have the fans with me and to care about me and wanting me to beat Zack so, you know... It was cool.
[JJ smiles with genuine pride and humility, stopping to take in some water]
DTM: Yeah I completely get that. I remember it really vividly; Zack came out and got a big pop, as he always does, and then everyone loves getting involved in the "Fuck The Tory" chants and the "Oh Zack Sabre Jr" chants and all of that, but once that had died down and... Like once everyone got that out of their sysyem, and we got down to the wrestling, it felt like everyone wanted JJ Gale to win.
JJ: Yeah, I felt that.
DTM: You could really feel it in the crowd and that's really carried on from there because, you think from that show, you finished the year beating Connor Mills in St Neots and started 2024 beating Callum Newman in the main event of the 229. And those two wins to end last year and start this year really felt like, to me as a fan, that this felt like the start for you of the results coming to match the performances. It always kind of felt like your performances were always there and... There'd always be, you know, someone getting over the line ahead of you but now there's that extra per cent, like literally that one per cent that would take you over the line and you've had some massive wins this year.
JJ: Yeah I think you're right. I fell like, I was the one last year saying 2023 was my year, it was a catchphrase and one of my go-to lines, and I haven't actually said it this year as I think it speaks for itself now and I don't feel like I need to remind people that this is my heart. The fans have been saying it, like you say... The proof is in the pudding if you will. You know the hard work has been going on for years but last year was the coming out party and now it's time to cement myself at the top of the RevPro roster. I did at the end of last year on, you know a very emotional show [following the passing of Kurtis Chapman, at Seasons Beatings] and I went out there and beat someone like Connor Mills who has been established at the top of the card for a long time. Then to walk in and beat my former tag team partner, you know? Regardless of whether either of us are thinking it, the comparisons are going to be made. Look at where he is now, having come back from the amazing run he's had in Japan, and I just let him know that, hey look, you're doing some great things but don't forget about me and I got that win and it was like me saying, 2024, this is my mission statement; take notice. And I think people did take notice. I don't think many people thought Callum would come back from Japan and lose to JJ Gale.
DTM: Yeah I completely get that, like you say last year was like this breakout year for you but this year there is no talk of that in the sense that, there's no need to say it's a breakout year when you are at the top of every card with Luke Jacobs, Michael Oku, Connor Mills, Robbie X and RKJ. I'd say, you six, between you, are the cornerstones that the company is built on and you are as cemented up there with them as any of them now; you've headlined as many shows this year as anyone. You've had some real feuds this year, and we will get to Luke Jacobs later, but you've had real feuds, rivalries and moments this year, like wrestling Josh Alexander in Southampton.
[JJ smiles and nods]
I feel that was special moment - it didn't feel like the local boy put in the main event, it felt you were there on merit because he [Josh Alexander] had come to wrestle the best in Britain and you are one of the very best in Britain.
JJ: Ah, thank you; I appreciate that. That was another huge moment for me and another opportunity to test yourself against one of the best in the world. Meeting him in the Revolution Rumble kind of whet the appetite for the fans and it was pretty awesome to do it in Southampton. For years now I feel like it is the place where I have grown as a professional wrestler. To be in front of those people and to feel their support once again - you have got the big superstar here from TNA, the world travelled wrestling star, but that room was fully behind me and that meant so much to me.
DTM: Ah 100% it was. I absolutely got it in the neck from my Mrs for going to Revolution Rumble on the Sunday and bailing on a family day with our kids and her side of the family so, I was going to skip Southampton to do some grafting, but when they announced your match, I knew I had to be there.
[JJ laughs]
JJ: Oh no, I hope I didn't cause any issues in the relationship there but I... I think you made the right choice.
DTM: I did, I did. I think what was really noticeable was, when Josh came out and saw how firmly the crowd were behind you, there was a moment where he looked around and he looked like he was thinking "I've stepped into the lions' den, here". And the match you put on was absolutely phenomenal. It built in nicely to the road to where we are now, with how you're so established at the top of the card and where Luke Jacobs seems to be a pretty big thorn in your side these days?
JJ: Luke... Look, Luke is where I want to be. He came in and, over a couple of years, he's got to where he is now as one of the best in the country, one of the best in Europe and, arguably, across the independent scene as a whole. You know, he's got this huge opportunity at the Copper Box to win the Undisputed British Heavyweight Championship...
DTM: Do you think he will?
[JJ pauses and takes stock]
JJ: That's a great question. It is very hard to call because I've been in the ring with Luke, a lot of times, and there's been, in those two matches we have had this year, moments where I've been convinced I have him beat and somehow he finds a way to get out of it. He's got those killer shots, those killer strikes and it is hard for me to bet against him... but then I haven't wrestled Mike since October 2022 and with the run he's been on he just keeps getting better and better. He's getting [to wrestle in] more and more places, having more and more big matches and improving as a competitor, so it is a really hard one to call but I think I'd edge towards Luke getting the win because I've been in the ring with him and I know what he can do. It's a hard one for me to call... But there is a part of me that thinks, you know, if Luke wins...
[JJ pauses and sighs]
You talk about him being a thorn in my side, I'd like to be a thorn in his side and when he's sitting there at the Copper Box, in the back, drinking a beer, looking down at his Undisputed British Heavyweight Championship and, I mean it's not going to be easy for him to win, but in this hypothetical situation where he does, I'd love that thought to pop in his head; "JJ Gale just beat Tomohiro Ishii and I have not done that" because I wholeheartedly intend on doing that.
DTM: That is some image. Definitely an image they will stick with me for a while. I think Luke, like you say, you can't bet against him against anybody but Mike has this way of just always getting over the line no matter how big the person he is facing is, no matter how much size and strength he is giving up to them; he finds a way to get over the line.
[JJ nods in agreement]
I think it's a fascinating main event and the parallel for me is that, last year you and Fujita went on third and Ishii and Jacobs had the match of the night. This year you and Ishii could steal the show whilst Luke is in the main event and who knows where you will be next year, you know? It's going to be a very different match, you Vs Tomohiro Ishii and Luke Jacobs Vs Tomohiro Ishii but I feel like it has the potential to be just as special. And then you have the added incentive, as you just alluded to, of what a win over Ishii could mean if or when Luke Jacobs becomes Undisputed British Heavyweight Champion. It's an exciting prospect but it it is a serious one. There are very few people in RevPro who have ever beaten Ishii - it's a very elite list of Big Damo, Chris Hero, Will Ospreay and Minoru Suzuki. That's it. Maybe we can add JJ Gale to that list?
[JJ's face turns serious]
JJ: Yeah. Just don't count me out, that's all I would say.
Critics might say, sure he puts in great performances but can he get over the line? There needs to be changing points, there have to be moments when you level up in your career and I think I've proven so far in my run that these moments have come and I truly believe that, at the Copper Box, on the biggest stage I've ever been on, in the biggest match I've ever been in and with the biggest challenge I've ever had, it's the time to show I've levelled up. Yeah, don't count me out. I've got heart and soul and I WILL get over the line.
DTM: I think a big one for you this year was in the 229 when you came out on top over RKJ and Connor Mills in that triple threat main event. Triple threat matches can tell various different stories - likes there's tonnes of ways someone can win a triple threat match without being the dominant competitor. In that match, there were moments when all three of you looked seconds away from winning but neither Ricky nor Connor could get over the line and you did. That felt massive to me as a fan as, like you say, that was you levelling up. And those two, they have to be considered well placed to be the next challenger for the title, whether its against Oku or Jacobs, but you have put yourself in that conversation with that victory.
JJ: Yeah I appreciate that. It was a chance, again, you know, to show that I am not just here to fill a spot, I can beat these guys. And that was a hard hitting match - full disclosure I had to take two weeks off from in-ring competition after that because I was hurting pretty bad and got my face caved into some chairs from Mills but I sill managed to come out on top.
I'm fully aware that when I face Ishii I'm going to get battered.
[JJ laughs]
And I'm probably going to have to take a few weeks off. But I can push through that and I proved that with that triple threat match; I overcame the odds and what's to say I can't do that again on August 24th.
DTM: Is it a case of, as you get more experienced and you get a greater sense of self belief that you realise you CAN push through things that maybe you couldn't earlier on in your career and you can take those big shots that the best people have got and still actually come out the other side?
JJ: Yeah, absolutely, that's it. The more of these big matches you have where you can see it through and get over the line, the more confidence you have when your in those moments where, maybe normally you wouldn't be able to get that shoulder up or carry on with that last burst of energy.
DTM: And whilst Ishii is a terrifying prospect, he is just a man and every man has weaknesses. Will there be lot of tape study to watch Ishii matches to find those weaknesses or do you prefer to try and feel it out on the night, in the ring?
JJ: A great man once told me that if you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail so, yeah, I've already begun studying Ishii, trying to find holes in his game. But also, I'm in this very advantageous position, which I don't intend to be in for much longer... but how much is Ishii watching JJ Gale matches right now? Probably not that much - he's a well travelled, seasoned pro wrestler but, for me, this is everything and, whilst I'm preparing for other matches, my vision and my focus is on Ishii at the Copper Box. So you can bet I'm going to know his game a hell of a lot better than he knows mine: I'll take him by surprise and that is my secret weapon.
DTM: Yeah you're right, it is an advantage but one you probably won't be able to have for much longer. I suspect that, after August 24th there will be a lot more preparation anytime anyone faces JJ Gale than perhaps there has been in the past. You've got a couple more shows with RevPro between now and the Copper Box and I'm sure, given the workhorse that you are, that you'll be working all over the country on shows in between; is there an element of going into those matches and viewing your opponents as substitutes for Ishii?
JJ: Yeah, absolutely. Look I want to be working as many shows as possible between now and the Copper Box so [that] I'm battle tested and ready; iron sharpens iron. Getting in there and taking the biggest fights I can is what I will do. I work best when there's a goal in front of me. Look back at my track record - when I knew I was going into Fujita, Zack Sabre Jr, Josh Alexander - there are more wins there leading up to them. These key moments in my career, when I've got that goal in front of me, it is just added incentive to work harder, to push through and to get those results. 100% Ishii will be in the centre of my mind but I don't underestimate any of the challenges I have before then.
DTM: Yeah absolutely, it reminds me of something TK Cooper said to me in interview last year when he said that, when you know a Championship is on the line, you don't necessarily prepare for it any different but, in the moment, it can just get you through a moment you might not get through otherwise, when you know there are high stakes to the match. And I imagine that is what this is for you as, although you aren't wrestling Ishii for a title, there's possibly something bigger at stake as you'll be able to say you've done something very few others will be able to say they've done and that will inevitably lead to championship opportunities.
JJ: Yeah this match could single handedly make me. If I go out and beat Tomohiro Ishii on that stage then l feel that is me set and 100% I can't see how anyone can say I'm not in line for a championship opportunity; I haven't seen Michael Oku beat Tomohiro Ishii and I haven't seen Luke Jacobs beat Tomohiro Ishii so, if and when I do that, there it is.
DTM: And that is an incredibly poignant line to end so I'll draw it to a close there mate. I'm conscious of your time on a rare Sunday off for you. Thank you for the time mate and I'll see you very soon on the Road To The Copper Box, cheering for JJ Gale wherever we are in the country.
JJ: Appreciate that brother.
A wonderful second chapter to When Dave The Mark Met JJ Gale, a year on from our first sit down. August 24th cannot come soon enough for me and, by the sounds of it, it can't come soon enough for JJ either.
It's been a minute since we had a break in shows for RevPro after a busy, busy June for me to share an interview I did last month with the lovely (unless you are in the ring with him) 'Goldenboy' Santos. After the Raw Deal and Sheffield Weekender, I was lucky to get to sit down with Santos in his hotel as he had an early morning flight back to Lisbon, Portugal and we got to discuss an eventful couple of months for the Iberian newcomer.
Dave The Mark: Thanks for taking the time to sit down and chat mate, much appreciated.
'Goldenboy' Santos: Thanks for having me, Dave.
[We order a couple of drinks. No Guinness 0.0 for me but they do have a San Miguel 0.0 on tap which is rare and incredibly appreciated. A coke zero for Santos]
DTM: So here we are, I've not met up with a wrestler in a hotel lobby before but you are no ordinary wrestler, my friend... You're flying home to Portugal after each show, right?
GS: There’s a first time for everything I’ve heard.
Yes, I’m still based in Lisbon.
DTM: But before that you were living in Germany, right?
GS: You got that right, yes. I’ve lived in Germany in 2019... before returning home due to the COVID crisis.
DTM: Got ya. So tell me about that - was it wrestling that took you to Germany?
GS: It was! I went to Germany for a Ringkampf camp in 2018. And from that moment, I’ve realized that wrestling is what I want to do. So when I got back, I saved money, and in 2019 I moved there... to train at the wXw Academy.
DTM: A huge step, leaving your family to pursue that journey. Why Germany? Why wXw?
GS: Unfortunately there’s no way to become a full time wrestler in Portugal. I’ve chosen Germany because I saw the success that Killer Kelly was having at the time, and she always told me wonderful things about the German scene. So it was a no brainer for me.
DTM: From a British perspective, Germany has always had a history with pro wrestling and with Ringkampf they had one of the coolest and hottest factions in all of the world. So was it about a year you were in Germany, living?
GS: They were. And I take a lot of inspiration in their work. Yes, a year and a couple months.
DTM: Did your time in Germany crossover with WALTER's or had he already set up with NXT UK by then?
GS: Yes, it did. He was still giving some classes whenever he was in Germany, and was part of the main shows. But his schedule was already crazy back then.
DTM: Oh wow, amazing. What was he like to learn from?
GS: Very honest and straight forward. If he didn’t like something he’d let you know. But always constructive feedback. Overall, a great coach.
DTM: I like that. I'm told Andy Quildan is the same!
GS: That’s the best way of teaching for me. Straight to the point, and always honest. It’s what gets you better!
DTM: I completely agree and I'm a teacher myself. Who else did you work with in Germany?
GS: Oskar Leube and Norman Harras were there at the same time. We all pushed each other to get better, and that created a big friendship and healthy rivalry between us.
DTM: You were in good company, then. Trainers who push you to get better and friends/rivals who do the same; sounds like a perfect blend. You started working wXw shows prior to the COVID European lockdown and were working a number of promotions across Spain and Portugal. Where do you feel the 'Goldenboy' Santos we see today evolved the most?
GS: The biggest thing I learnt in Germany at the wXw Academy is that basics are never enough. I pride myself as having very good basics that allow me to work with every wrestler on the planet right now and keeping up with them in spite of wrestling style. But of course... always keeping up my big man powerhouse wrestling style.
DTM: "Big man powerhouse style"... I think you must be one of the biggest men we have seen in RevPro in a LONG time. How tall are you?
GS: I’ll take that as a compliment [laughs] Right now I’m standing on 6’5, 260lbs.
DTM: Six five? Jeez. I think you're only RevPro rivals are Zack Gibson and Danny Jones but I think you have the weight advantage on both. Of course we also have Oskar too. Has that helped coming into RevPro for the first time, to have a familiar face?
GS: It’s always great to have familiar faces around. Me and Oskar had some history before we faced each other in Barcelona. So I think it made sense to take advantage of that history to have us face each other 3 years after our last bout... See how much we developed since then.
DTM: Ah yes, Barcelona. What a show that was! When did you first find out that RevPro and LLB were going to collaborate and that you'd be part of the card?
GS: It was great! It gave us Iberian talent a chance and a platform to show our value to a bigger audience. I got to know that I would wrestle on that show in the week of the show itself!
DTM: Oh really? Well you obviously made a great impression as we have seen you a lot since!
GS: I’ve been preparing for an opportunity like that for a long time now. I’m happy to see that my work was not unnoticed.
DTM: That's interesting, how aware were you of RevPro prior to the Barcelona show. I mean, it's often touted as one of... if not THE biggest European promotion but that is by us Brits who get to see it week in, week out. Has it been on your wrestling bucket list for a while?
GS: Ive always kept an eye on RevPro, since I started training and got familiar with independent professional wrestling. It was clear for me that it was the place to be in England, like OTT is in Ireland, and wXw in Germany. I’m very fortuned to work regularly for those who I consider the best promotions in the world of independent professional wrestling.
DTM: You're certainly someone who grinds for their craft - flying in and out on a weekly basis to work for different promotions but, like you say, you have found a home in some BIG independent promotions.
[Santos gives a warm smile that is indicative of his charm]
DTM: So the first time we saw you in the UK for RevPro was in London against Ricky Knight Jr, which brought you into conversation with David Francisco. Talk to us a little about that show as it feels like the start for everything that followed.
GS: RKJ was one of the guys I looked up to, and wished to test myself against. We see wrestling the same way, and went hard with each other. Unfortunately I came up short, fair and square, which means I need to work even harder.
[Santos' eyes intensify ever so slightly]
But what hurt me the most in that match were not the kicks or the chops... it was was offering a handshake after a fair and hard hitting fight, and RKJ choosing not to shake my hand. I’ve left my family and friends behind a lot of times for wrestling. I spend more hours in the gym than 90% of independent wrestlers. I travel in and out to earn those opportunities. I was not born in the epicenter of wrestling, like all the rest of the RevPro roster. I think I’ve deserved more respect.
[Charming and convincing]
DTM: I think that is more than fair and RKJ has a reputation for being someone who very rarely takes a handshake but he did when he faced Zozaya and when he faced Mike D Vecchio and I feel like your grind deserved the respect he offered those guys. David Francisco came out and was heard saying to you that this was what England would be like to you and he seemed to use this to build a bond between you two. You seemed hesitant at first though? Did it take a lot of thought to join forces or not?
DTM: I've known David for some years now. We were never friends, but we always respected each other's grind. Me in Germany, him in the UK. Despite our different personalities and values, we know how hard it is to leave everything behind for our dream. That’s something that the RevPro roster has no clue about. They’re lucky and entitled that they were born into the epicenter of independent wrestling. So of course they would never understand our obsession with paying respect for other’s struggles.
DTM: And it's worth noting that, together as a team, you've had a huge impact in RevPro, notably for poor Sha Samuels who finds himself out of action for the foreseeable future after Raw Deal in Stevenage. You and David had his and Oskar's number in Southampton and then again in Stevenage but... do you feel you went too far with the attack, now you are out of the moment and can look back?
GS: I’ve nothing against Sha Samuels, if I’m being honest. I actually respect the work he’s done in his career. But he should known better than to get himself in the middle of my business with Oskar.
You mess with the Bull, you get the horns. That’s the message we sent to the RevPro roster.
Maybe that time off due to injury helps him clear his thoughts about what he did.
[Santos laughs]
DTM: I feel like that message has been received. Josh James certainly felt it in Sheffield. That was a big moment for him, his first singles win of 2024. He didn't leave the ring looking like a winner though...
GS: He could’ve just taken the win, shake our hand like a true winner, and leave the ring as a true winner.
But I guess he still has to mature as a wrestler. Hope we helped with that.
[I'm starting to see that sinister side to Santos properly come through. He's a gentleman, until someone gets in the way of business]
DTM: Ouch.
[I laugh more awkwardly than intended].
DTM: Raw Deal did not end quite as you'd planned though, right, with the return of Yuto Nakashima and the YOUNGBLOOD reunion?
GS: In spite of the result, the message has been sent. We have beat the hell out of them. Yuto wasn’t even supposed to be in the match, that didn’t help, but we still sent our message to one of NJPW's most promising teams. After Raw Deal, the YOUNGBLOOD learnt that the Portuguese are tough motherfuckers, and I bet they respect us for that.
DTM: Do you respect Oskar, after every thing you have been through?
GS: Oskar is my biggest rival so far, and I feel like our story isn’t finished. The way he used illegal tactics to beat me in Barcelona goes against everything we’ve been taught, growing up as wrestlers. We still have business to settle one on one. And we always seem to find each other, everywhere we go. So it doesn’t matter where, but I believe this isn’t the last time we saw Santos vs. Oskar. Either in RevPro, wXw, or anywhere else in the WORLD.
DTM: It very much feels like you two are destined to always be in one another's orbits. So what is next for you in RevPro? Have you and David discussed goals?
GS: Only time will tell. One thing I can guarantee to you, we will continue to make them respect us. We will not wait for that respect, but we will take it. By any means necessary. I won’t let my grind and work get unnoticed.
DTM: Any means necessary...
GS: I know I have what it takes to be one of the best professional wrestlers in Europe. If people continue to ignore it, I might as well just shove it down their throats.
DTM: There are some massive opportunities coming up between now and the end of the year - the Copper Box Arena show All In weekend, GWF and RevPro weekend in Berlin, the Great British Tag League - lots of chances for you and David to, how did you just put it, "shove it down their throats"?
GS: I guess if I spoil it right here, people will see it coming. So I’ll take my vow of silence til the moment is right!
DTM: Interesting... That sounds like you and David have some plans afoot but I won't press you... David scares me a little, to be honest... when he's hot and bothered. I wouldn't want to piss him off and you have been a gentleman in chatting to me, so I'll let you keep your plans secret until we see them unfold!
GS: If you show me respect, I’ll show you respect back. That should be the norm, and that’s how I operate.
DTM: So whilst I won't push you in plans ahead, I will ask, who in RevPro do you have your eye on for a singles match or tag teams you'd like to face with David?
GS: As I told you, I believe I have the potential to be one of the best wrestlers in Europe. But for that, I need to test myself against the best. Oku, in my eyes, is currently the best wrestler in Europe. He’s the British Heavyweight Champion for a reason. So he’s at the top of my list.
Luke Jacobs and Mills are two other guys that I feel that would put a big test in front of me. Our styles mash up great. Especially Luke. People have been calling him one of the best heavyweight wrestlers in the world, and undoubtedly so. The matches against Ishii speak for themselves. And to be the man, you have to beat the man. I plan to do that soon.
DTM: Oh mate, I want all three of those matches so much. Mills is the standard in RevPro when it comes to the technical side of pro wrestling, Luke brings the power and intensity and Michael is one of the most resilient wrestlers I've ever seen. I tell you one else I'd like... 'Goldenboy' Santos Vs Gabe Kidd would SLAP.
[Santos laughs]
GS: Slap is probably the best way to describe it.
I didn’t mention Gabe because he’s not in the UK as regularly. Obviously I’d love to trade blows with the mad man himself. He’s not the only one who’s WAR READY, and would be great to show him that. Face to face.
DTM: Yeah Gabe is one of those who has taken his opportunities in RevPro and used them to spread his wings to New Japan and across the US but he always comes back. It's something to say for RevPro, they always come back which must say something for the way Andy runs his company.
GS: Totally agreed. It says a lot about the company, and the wrestlers themselves, if they go out of their way to help, when they wouldn’t benefit as much as before they reached bigger heights.
Conscious of not overstaying my welcome combined with the fact that Santos has eyed up every plate of food that has been carried past us means I decide to bring our interview to a close at this stage, exchanging pleasantries - which are as warm and genuine as they were before we started, which is a sign to me that I did not over step the mark, thankfully. I like Santos a lot and feel he has a tonne of potential in RevPro. However, I would not want to get on the wrong side of the guy - there's a massive chip on his shoulder about having to work so hard to earn opportunities coming from a country where pro wrestling is harder to make your name from. Because of that, he really will do anything to get to where he has worked to be. I'm very curious to see what's next for him, that's for sure, and I feel like the big man is just getting started.
Well, this is different. I'm starting to grow accustomed to interviewing my heroes and I've had the pleasure of visiting some cool spots to conduct them - the Portsmouth School of Wrestling for JJ Gale and Josh James, New Wave's Wrestling Academies in both the South-West for Leyton Buzzard and the West Midlands for Lucia Lee, and Union Thai Gym for Brett Semtex; awesome behind the scenes opportunities. I have had tacos with TK Cooper and the most uncomfortable drink of my life with Levi Muir. But this one's different. Jordan Saeed is new to Revolution Pro Wrestling in his role as a contender but he and I go a little way back, bonding over a shared love of West Ham United Football Club and Pro Wrestling. We have become pretty tight and the lines between Mark and wrestler have blurred so when I approached him for this interview not only did he jump at the chance, he insisted that we did it over some WKDs (for him) and Guinness 0.0 (for me) on a Friday night out in our beloved East End where we both once called home. So I headed down to Seven Sisters last Friday after work to meet up with Jordan at the London School Of Wrestling before we jumped on a tube East for a fun and eventful night out where I got the inside scoop on how the newest Contender is finding his feet. So without further adieu, here's When Dave The Mark Met Jordan Saeed.
Dave The Mark: As I hit record mate let's raise a toast to Jordan Saeed, to Revolution Pro Wrestling and to When Dave The Mark Met Jordan Saeed. Thank you for taking me out brother!
Jordan Saeed: It's all good, man, cheers!
DTM: So, mate, what a crazy six months it's been for you in every sense but especially with RevPro and the London School of Wrestling. Take me back to the beginning there; when did you start training at the school?
JS: Crazy is an understatement dude... very bizzare and wonderful. Not ruling out anything more!
[Jordan's laugh is infectious]
I started training at the London School at its opening late 2022, been there most weeks without fail whether its taking part or helping with the school, you know? I genuinely hand on heart believe it is one of the best schools in the UK due to the affordability, man, the accessibility and the quality of coaching. Not many things can get you 15 quid in London but thats how much sessions are. I also, for a while, trained at the Portsmouth School of Wrestling, since 2021... would take those gnarly saturday morning trips to train under the man himself Andy Q!
DTM: Is it always Sha you train with now?
JS: Yeah and working with him is so great, man. It's just, like, his level of experience and the knowledge he gives you, not only in-ring but of the business. Like, it's all good running drills and training, but getting to hear of the places he's been and the experiences he's had... It's really opened my eyes man.
DTM: How much of an impact on your career at this stage would say Sha's had?
JS: Not only am I a better wrestler under Sha but I've become a lot smarter about the business and I put that down to being around Sha and sharing in his knowledge. He's a great dude, man. I feel like he's given me the biggest hand into Revolution Pro Wrestling, going to his Advanced Sessions on Mondays - hand on heart I'd say he changed my career. To get me to Revolution Pro Wrestling, I have to give a lot of credit to Sha.
DTM: Yeah I can see that... all the love for Sha. The dude is a capital P Professional Wrestler. Mate, tell me about Andy Quildan in Portsmouth as I don't think many fans realise how hands on he is with training.
JS: Ah man... Training with Andy Q is great because he can give you such in depth knowledge cos this is the same guy that's booked Will Ospreay, Rey Mysterio, AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, you know? He clearly knows what he's doing and your getting feedback, in depth feedback from someone who's booked those types of people, booked the best venues in the world... Getting that type of perspective given the wrestling he's seen... It's very eye opening. Things you didn't even know existed, he gives you. It's like... Wow, I can really run with that. Training under Andy was great.
DTM: So Andy and Sha... Who else has helped shape the wrestler you are today or even the way you see wrestling?
JS: In terms of wrestlers who have had the biggest influence on my career... I'd definitely say the other coaches at the London School; [Connor] Mills, [Michael] Oku and David [Francisco]. Guys I've known since 2018/19. We did a lot of the same shows in London, even some of the family shows and even some abroad shows with some of them too. Yeah, just like watching them, learning from them, picking their brains out - even wrestling them as well, it's really helped my progress in wrestling. Another wrestler who's been a huge influence for me is Oliver Peace - he's not just a wrestler but also the promoter for Wrestle Force who run family friendly wrestling shows in the south and around the country.
DTM: Was It Oliver that you first started with?
JS: Yeah he gave me my big break, you know? He gave me a lot of opportunities, a lot of reps, got me frequently on shows and brougt in a lot of guys who were hot on the indie scene so I could learn from them. He's definitely a big influence on my career. There's a lot in those days where I'm, like, yeah I got that because of Oli and the Wrestle Force model. I think a lot of people can relate to what I'm saying there.
DTM: What about outside of the UK scene, who do you like to tape study?
JS: Ah man, that goes through phases, there's people who I've watched for a few years now and people I watch consistently and then there's the odd match here and there from others I'll watch. I watch, like, Tristan Archer, I'm a really huge fan of his work, both in WXW and in France. I've been very fortunate to be on shows with him where I can watch him live but I also can pop his name into YouTube and there's really cool stuff.
Another wrestler, on maybe a bigger, more mainstream scale is Nick Aldis 'cos ironically he came through the same training school I did, obviously years earlier, years and years before I was. I really like to watch his stuff from, maybe 2016 to around 2018. He's one guy I really enjoy watching and I feel like he's really influenced my stuff.
DTM: Man, I was so into NWA Power before the world came to a sudden halt. And that series of matches with Cody - I loved the 'big match feel' about everything he did in that period. He had one of my favourite matches of the closed arena era too when he wrestled Mike Bennett - that match and that build, after Bennett was released from WWE which they worked into the story - quality stuff mate.
JS: Yeah, big fan, man.
DTM: So bringing it round to RevPro, you debuted in Portsmouth in November right? I remember distinctly as it was the only show I missed in the second half of last year cos it was the Mrs' birthday. Was gutted I missed your first match and I remember we spoke a lot at the time about it. What are your memories now, what must be, what, seven months on?
JS: Yeah November 26th right?
DTM: Yep that's the one - I get away with a lot with the Mrs, fucking off every Sunday for RevPro, sometimes all weekend, but on her birthday? No chance!
JS: Do you know what, that particular weekend, or week, throughout the course of my life has always had something bizarre, or cool, or big happens. I don't know what it is about that particular week but whenever it comes up I always think... Ooh... Something cool might happen!
DTM: What we talking, wrestling, personal...?
JS: Bit of both mate, a couple of years back I got offered a huge booking last minute for another promotion and then the year later I had a football ACCA come through which won me a couple of hundred.
DTM: Amazing! So Pompey last year, when did you get the nod?
JS: So I knew the night before I'd be wrestling and I think the graphic must have gone out that night... maybe 9 or 10pm, I remember it was a really late time. I feel great about it, looking back. There was so many cool stories with a few of the guys in that match and I got to share the ring with some top talent. It also meant a lot having Sha there along with Mark [Trew] and Keiron [Lacey] whom I started out with in wrestling... I had Keiron's debut and I reffed Mark's first match!
DTM: Love those lads, mate, proper grafters. So when did conversations about the Contenders role come about?
JS: So I found out an hour before doors at the Revolution Rumble.
DTM: FUUUUUUUCK... Really?
JS: Yeah man, and I wasn't meant to be at that show as I had other commitments but when I got that call... I mean I just had to drop everything and get to York Hall and... You know... Fortunately it's a very short distance for me, so it was totally fine. And then, after the show there was a brief chat and I asked "Do you want me to be a Contender?" and Andy said "It's yours if you want it" and I was, like, "absofuckinglutely!" and it confirmed there and then.
DTM: Mate, that's so fucking cool. I was so gassed seeing you work the show.
JS: It just came about so quickly man, and it was, like... Without going into too much detail... there was meant to be some really cool things which were kind of meant to happen that week... And then they fell through... And that sent me on, not like a downward spiral 'cos that's like a really morbid word l, but it was just, like, when the Contenders thing came, it was like a lifeline thrown. I was, like, this is cool, let me see what this is about. Dare I say, being offered a Contendership means I feel properly in wrestling at the end of a not very positive week.
DTM: So I recently interviewed Josh James and he has obviously come to the end of his Contenders journey, what is it about the division that attracted you to start it?
JS: Revolution Pro Wrestling, man, it's one of the biggest promotions in the world and so many people who have walked in there are now established, whether that's in the UK or even in the wider world. And, like, as a Contender you have a blank book and every page is you developing and growing as a wrestler, taking lessons and by that final page, that final product, you're going to be a totally different wrestler to who you was on that first page. Its the excitement to be able to develop in easily one of the best promotions in the world and to get to wrestle some of the best talent in the world... [It] is so exciting.
DTM: I mean look at who's come through that division - Gabe Kidd, JJ Gale, Brendan White, you know? And look at your very first match, headlining the 229 against Ethan Allen!
JS: Yeah so he cut that promo in Sheffield and he said he'd be back in ring in the 229 and I messaged him that night saying, you know, it's cool to have you back, you know? And I asked, "out of curiosity, who do you have?" And he was like, "I don't know man"; he didn't have a clue who he had. A few days later I get my booking but I don't know who I've got on the card, you know I'm totally oblivious at that point, and then I found when the graphic goes up on Twitter!
DTM: That's mental mate!
JS: Yeah, maybe he knew but he knew I didn't know and he wanted me to have the surprise... I don't know!
DTM: And that match mate, which I thought was absolutely class fella, and that ain't me blowing smoke up your arse but calling it as I see it, how do you look back on it a few weeks on?
JS: Mate he's not missed a step, if anything he's even better than he was. It's very wild that he's had such a long time off and, as he says, it's a different gear. For me, I'll always hold the match close and dear to my heart for me personally, professionally... For all the reasons... To be at the 229, to be at Revolution Pro Wrestling, yeah... It's always going to hold very dear to me that match. And, you know, to be in the main event...
DTM: Maaaate, what a moment.
JS: Dude it feels so weird to me even now - I was buzzing for days after. And I learnt a lot... A lot from that match. I listened to all the feedback that anyone and everyone gave me and I'm using it to develop. It was a great learning experience.
DTM: And then from the main event to the this Sunday, against the Undisputed British Heavyweight Champion? That's wild, man.
JS: Mate he's one of the best in the world and it's probably the biggest test of my entire career. I wrestled him before for another promotion and... There's a reason he is who he is, let's put it that way. I'm really looking forward to it. It's gonna be great to be in a ring with him and I'm gonna give it 110% because that's all I ever can do. And if I beat Mike, you know? Who knows. Stranger things have happened to me this year!
And that, my friends, is where our conversation turned to some of the stranger things that have occured this year - check out Blind Dating Elle Brooke if you haven't already on YouTube - but that chat remained off the record!
Like I say, I have so much time for Jordan and have done for long before his RevPro debut. I'm delighted to see him as part of the Contenders journey and, bias aside, I think he's smashed it so far and will make such a success of this opportunity. He obviously didn't defeat Mike, as I am posting this a week after we met up, but he learnt and that's what this division is all about, Win Or Learn.
I can't wait to see the rest of the journey.
What a month it has been for Lucia Lee. She made her return to RevPro for the first time in 18 months at The Network in Sheffield to face Nightshade and then, with next to no notice, seized the opportunity and stepped in to face Rhio in the 229 when unforeseen circumstances prevented Dani Luna from making the show. We find ourselves in a transitional period in the Contenders division and my manifestation on davethemark.com of Lucia joining the division as the first women's Contender garnered some traction and got people thinking and talking. Whether it happens or not, I hope to see more of Lucia in Revolution Pro Wrestling as she brings something to the women's division that no-one else does; a true babyface underdog you can root for and get behind as she fights from underneath and attempts to step up to those older and more experienced wrestlers on the scene. So, it felt like a great time to sit down and chat about the journey that led her here and I was delighted when Lucia invited me up the M1 to Stoke-On-Trent to New Wave West Midlands Wrestling Academy for a midweek road trip. We talked about everything from her experiences in RevPro, to her hopes and goals, to how an interaction with Kurtis Chapman introduced her to RevPro. So, without further adieu, here's When Dave The Mark Met Lucia Lee!
Dave The Mark: Thanks for the invite mate! We have met a fair few times before but it's nice to "Meet" for a proper chat.
Lucia Lee: No worries mate!
DTM: I was over in the New Wave Academy in Newport a couple of months back to meet Leyton Buzzard and this is an equally awesome setup here. Is this your normal training spot?
LL: It is. So, I’ve been training at New Wave since before New Wave existed, I think it was around June last year when I had my first session there and I’ve stuck around ever since.
DTM: What was it pre New Wave?
LL: So previously it was just a small family promotion in Stoke and Flash [Morgan Webster] took over the training just after COVID, then eventually he bought the school and changed the name.
DTM: It's got a really good reputation and with the New Wave Academy in Newport it's certainly a growing brand.
LL: Wales was awesome too when I went down, with really great guys running both schools.
DTM: Who do you train with most?
LL: I’m at New Wave West Midlands every week... it’s a really great group of guys. Wales is a bit further away but I try and head down to their shows and school when possible.
DTM: Class. And of course we have seen a recent return to RevPro in the past month...
LL: Indeed! I’m very grateful to be back at RevPro, I’ve had the pleasure of wrestling two of the best around at the past two shows.
DTM: So if my memory serves right, these two have added to two in 2022, right? Top level talents each time.
LL: Absolutely, I’ve been really fortunate in opponents at RevPro. Each time it’s been unique but a great learning experience.
DTM: It was Mercedes Blaze first, I remember that as me and the kids watched it at home On Demand and they fell in love with you immediately. Do you remember where that one was?
LL: Aw man I really appreciate that! And yeah it was the 229, my first time wrestling there and I remember being so proud afterwards, even after the loss.
DTM: I thought it was - it must have been October or November maybe as it was December that we met, in St Neots.
LL: I’m 90% it was October 23rd, and yes! Great venues, really enjoyed both crowds.
DTM: In St Neots it was for the Southside Women's Championship before it was unified with the British Women's Championship - that was a big stage for you at that point in your career. What are your memories of that match?
[Lucia laughs]
LL: My main memory was how unwell I was. I had really bad tonsillitis right after, I was in bed for two weeks, but other than that I remember having a lot of fun and it was really cool to compete for a title at RevPro... I came around after Southside had ended so it was cool to be even a little part of their history by competing for their belt too.
DTM: Aye, its the same my end, I discovered RevPro after Southside was bought by Andy and never got to see it but my mates who have been following RevPro longer have fond memories of the promotion.
So that was the final show of 2022, how old were you then and how far into the game were you at that point?
LL: I had just turned 20, and I’d done about two and a bit years on shows... I wrestled from March 2019-2020, had all the time off in lockdown and came back July 2021.
DTM: Ah man COVID must have hit at the worst possible time for you...
LL: In all honestly yes and no... I think I’m actually glad I got that break looking back, it gave me time to rest up and really realise what I wanted out of wrestling.
DTM: I get that completely. It was a time that led to a lot of reflection for a lot of people. I understand if those are goals you would like to keep private for now but are there any you'd like to share?
LL: I think my goals are pretty straight forward... I want to be able to look back on a strong body of work in my career and earn the respect of my peers and fans alike. Any success that comes with that is just a bonus.
DTM: I absolutely love that.
LL: And getting to RevPro was my ultimate goal. For me RevPro is the biggest show in the UK and has possibly the strongest women’s roster around... I’m very proud to have achieved that goal, another one was wrestling abroad which I got to do as well so I’m very grateful.
DTM: I think that is a fair assessment - something I always think about is how you many people have paved the way from the start of their wrestling journey to RevPro and then used that platform to become the biggest names in Europe and, in many cases, have taken their careers to the biggest companies in the world.
LL: Absolutely, one of my biggest inspirations is Zoe Lucas and her body of work on RevPro, Stardom... truly inspiring. I do a little homage to her in my matches with my corner leg lariat... she’s an angel and I always loved watching her wrestle.
DTM: Ah I love Zoe. She is someone I wish, wish, wish I had seen live and in person had I come to RevPro that bit sooner but maybe one day she will return. You look across the wrestling landscape and there's RevPro alumni and BritWres fingertips across every major company.
LL: I’d really love to wrestle her one day. I met her in 2019 as a trainee and she was really sweet to me, one of the few people that took the time to have a chat with me and showed me a lot of respect... and she was absolutely fantastic in the ring; I’d love to see her return.
And a return to RevPro came for you in Sheffield against Nightshade, was it last month now? Yeah, the night after Epic Encounter weren't it.
LL: It was, Nightshade was my 100th match and it was really cool to get to wrestle her again, she’s one of the most underrated in the UK in my opinion.
DTM: Ah that's an awesome milestone. 100th match - what are you up to now?
LL: According to my notes app list, I’m at 181 matches now! I keep a list of who and where along with the number.
DTM: Love that! I also keep a list of every show I've been to and every wrestler I've seen and how many times. It currently says Lucia Lee x3 and I am very, very keen to make that a much bigger number through RevPro.
LL: I’d really love that, I hope I’ll get a few more chances at rev pro, I’m really desperate to pick up my first win there.
DTM: What was it like being back after eighteen months?
LL: [Nightshade and I] we’ve wrestled a couple of times but this is the first time she’s beaten me, I think she’s come back to RevPro as a different animal. It was really wholesome for me, I’m super grateful to Andy for giving me another shot. The RevPro roster is just a great bunch of people, I’m a huge fan of the whole atmosphere there too. It’s a great group of people, like even the trainees from the school are just so lovely and helpful... I’m very glad to be a part of it.
DTM: I make you right, Nightshade has returned to RevPro a different animal and she was, respectfully, pretty dominant in Sheffield.
LL: I think she has a goal and that goal is the Undisputed British Women’s Championship. I can’t say I appreciate her methods but I can respect that she’s going after what she wants... would have loved the outcome to be different but it just tells me what I need to do differently next time.
DTM: It's that phrase that RevPro is built upon, right? Win or learn.
LL: Absolutely, both matches I’ve had there this year have both been lessons in themselves.
DTM: And you say about wanting that first win, you came close against Rhio, maybe the closest you've been since that first against Mercedes?
LL: I agree, I think there’s an element of self doubt whenever I get close, it’s like I think myself into losing? I don’t have that confidence that someone like Rhio has... I’m still out here trying to prove myself and falling short.
DTM: But you also reflect on each and every match - I've seen that and picked up on it from our chats at shows. That will see you right long term, I'm sure of it.
[And there is that smile that screams modesty, humility and a little self-doubt that I've seen on Lucia's face each time she steps through the curtain]
DTM: Tell me about that match with Rhio and how it came it about.
LL: So I came down to the 229 show just to help crew, I thought there’s no way any spots would come up on that show as I saw both Rhio and Dani were healthy and had competed that week already so I figured I’d leave my gear at home and just go help out however I could.
[We both laugh]
LL: Then I get there and Dani Luna is running late as she’s had an issue with her car, before I know it Andy is asking if I’ve got my gear and I had to say no! But I told him, give me an hour or so to prepare and I'll figure it out, and he told me to go for it.
So I went into London to just find something athletic to wear as I’d come to the show in jeans and knew I couldn’t wrestle in them; I bought a leotard and tights and then borrowed bits and bobs from the lovely people in the locker room!
DTM: Does that mean you'll be bringing your gear to shows every time now regardless?
LL: I’ll never leave him without my gear now I swear!
DTM: Do you know what though, I think it was that really simplistic black gear that etched into me the image of you as a Contender? I've manifested it ever since!
LL: Eye emoji!
[Lucia laughs]
LL: I love Japanese wrestling, I’ve always loved the Young Lion system and I love that Rev pro incorporate it into such a big part of their shows... if there’s an opportunity for me to take on that title, it would be an honour.
DTM: It's funny actually, as ever since I mentioned it, a lot of people have spoken about how much they want to see it to me. It was even a question on the Q&A Andy does on a Friday lunch time. There's obviously a lot of love for the division, for there to be a women's representative and there is no better fit in my eyes than you.
LL: I really, really appreciate that. It’s very cool that people want it! Ultimately it’s Andy’s decision and I’ll respect whatever he chooses but I’d love to be a part of the contenders division. I never mind grafting for what I want.
DTM: That's part of what made me think it. You've worked shows behind the scenes, chipping in and grafting and you want to learn, to wrestle the best and improve and that is what the vision is all about.
LL: I love British wrestling, we’ve had a real rough few years and I’m really happy to just still be apart of it. I like to help however I can and if that’s setting up a ring or running jackets to the back or competing for a title I’m just grateful to be there.
DTM: The Contenders system is pretty unique too in the UK, as you say, a bit more the Japanese system. I interviewed Josh James the other week now he is on the other side and it is amazing to think all the talent he has worked over the past couple of years through that system. Then you look at whose come up the system here in RevPro from Brendan White to JJ Gale, Gabe Kidd to Mad Kurt, it's pretty special.
LL: Kurt was actually my introduction to RevPro, as the Super Contender back when it was on a Sky or BT Sports channel... I’m pretty sure he wrestled Chris Brookes on the show and I tweeted him and that was our first interaction.
DTM: Ah I love that. I love hearing stories about him.
LL: I know everyone loves Mad Kurt, but Super Contender Kurtis Chapman was my guy.
DTM: Ah me too man, I'm watching back RevPro shows from 2012 to now as I'm a proper completionist obsessive. Shock. And Super Contender Kurtis Chapman is my guy for real.
You remind me of him a lot.
LL: That means a hell of a lot to me, we bonded over having braces and loving wrestling many years ago now. I’m very grateful that I’ve met such great people over the years including Kurt.
DTM: He was someone you just couldn't not support and fall in love with and root for and that is you all over - someone you just want to see and win. When I watch your matches I feel myself throwing punches with you. It's like the 12th man in football and you're just desperate to get the team over the line.
LL: I think it comes from not being particularly what other people view as a stereotypical wrestler, I don’t always feel like I fit in in wrestling and I’m learning that that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes people peg you as an underdog, it’s your job to roll with the punches and even if your fighting from underneath, remember your still fighting.
DTM: I love that phrase - get that on a t-shirt; Fighting From Underneath But Still Fighting.
LL: I think that’ll definitely be in the conversation for my next shirt!
DTM: So Mercedes, Dani, Nightshade and Rhio. Who are you hoping is next? You've definitely earned a callback.
LL: Alex. Windsor. No doubt in my mind, she is the pinnacle, the true measuring stick and I am desperate to prove I can hang with Alex Windsor. Especially this version of Alex.
DTM: Love that. Shoot for the top, right?
LL: If I can prove I can go with the very best, then there’s no stopping me!
DTM: For sure and Alex Windsor has been the top of women's wrestling in the UK, certainly from my experiences of it with RevPro, for the past few years. Dani Luna is obviously right up there with her and I would love to see a rematch from 2022 if the opportunity arises down the line.
LL: One day I think it’ll happen, I wanna be prepared when it does, I’m training harder than ever, staying ready so I won’t need to get ready haha.
DTM: Are you planning on coming down to the 229 in... What... Two weeks right?
LL: Absolutely I'll be there!
DTM: Yeah we have a week off of shows then it's back to the 229 for Young Guns Vs Trew & Lacey and Cameron Khai Vs Zozaya announced so far.
LL: I’m very excited to come down and watch, and see all the RevPro fans again! Atmosphere is unbeatable.
DTM: I'm expecting Rhio Vs Luna after what Rhio said last time out...
LL: That’ll be a hard hitting contest, I think the fans are absolutely desperate to see it after it being taken away last minute so I’ll look forward to seeing who comes out on top, so I know what I’m working toward.
DTM: Aye it is one I cannot wait for. So I'll see you in about ten days and, who knows, maybe bring your gear with you!
[We both laugh]
LL: Yes! I’ll see you there, and you’ll see me with a large gym bag just in case!
DTM: Always ready, eh?
LL: From that day forth, I absolutely will be!
DTM: Thanks for taking the time to catch up mate - it is always a pleasure!
LL: Thank you for chatting with me man!
And with that we bring an end to When Dave The Mark Met Lucia Lee. Lucia gives me the tour of New Wave West Mids and we chat about our love of wrestling and just shoot the shit a bit more, off the record. She's an awesome young talent but, what I love more is, she's an awesome person. I'm rooting for her every time I see her. I can't wait to see what's next for her on the journey.
Next up for Revolution Pro Wrestling sees the return to the 229 for May's monthly dose of Pro Wrestling At Its Best in the capital. Last time we were there we were witness to a huge moment in the career of a mainstay of RevPro since my Markdom began as Josh James graduated from the Contenders division. For those new to Revolution Pro Wrestling, the Contenders division is a rite of passage for trainee wrestlers who are breaking into the business through the Portsmouth School Of Wrestling. As well as training at the school, the Contenders are giving opportunities on shows against seasoned veterans of the British, European and world stage to help sharpen their tools, develop experience and learn from the best. They also, though, have a very hands on role at shows, undertaking roles varying from setting the ring up, to driving talent to and from the airport and working at ringside. So with RevPro taking a two week break from live events it felt like the perfect time to sit down and catch up with Josh James, who invited me down to "where it all started", the Portsmouth School Of Wrestling. We looked back over the last 8 years with RevPro, the life and times of a Contender and a look forward to what is next for the heavyweight powerhouse. So, here we have it; When Dave The Mark Met Josh James...
Dave The Mark: Firstly mate, thank you for having me down for my second visit to the wonderful Portsmouth School Of Wrestling. What does this place mean to you?
[Josh James smiles and takes in a look around the room]
Josh James: The Portsmouth School of wrestling made an unachievable dream become a reality. Throughout school and college I always wanted to do it but never knew of anywhere here that allowed you to do it and every year in careers advice I would say I want to be a wrestler and I was always told to stop dreaming and think of something serious. The Portsmouth school allowed me to live my dreams and I remind myself of that every time I train here and every time I walk through the curtain. The school means everything to me.
DTM: When did you start your training here?
JJ: It was the end of January 2016, the day of the Revolution Rumble that year, I believe Saturday the 30th?
DTM: Seven years of hard work from first session to your York Hall debut. Life has a way of being beautifully symmetrical sometimes, eh?
JJ: It really does, I remember the first big show I became part of the team and helped out at, it was Summer Sizzler headlined by ZSJ and Shibata for the British Heavyweight Championship, and I remember walking into the building at 6am in the morning looking around and thinking one day I would perform there. Fast forward to 2023 and I made my York Hall debut in the same match I made my professional wrestling debut.
DTM: Who did you train with then and who was leading the sessions?
JJ: Andy Simmonz but also Andy Quildan was leading the sessions back then as he is now, he’s ever present! And throughout I’ve been taught by a few of my incredibly talented peers, Gideon Grey who is an exceptional technical wrestler (as much as he is annoying), we had seminars from some of the best to ever do this... I really joined at the point where the scene was becoming hot again and laying the framework for the scene we’re in today.
DTM: So you started training here at the Portsmouth School Of Wrestling and was it then that you immediately began supporting at shows?
JJ: I think it took a few months, I was still trying to find my feet and become part of the team. The first show after I started was the Kurt Angle V ZSJ show, and I paid for a ticket and watched as a fan, then there was a Portsmouth Guildhall show with James Castle, Bram & Matt Cross, and then it was the Summer Sizzler show when I came to help out and wanted to make a fully 100% commitment to everything.
DTM: And tell me about what that commitment has involved as, thinking back to last weekend, they were probably the first RevPro shows I've been to that you weren't working since I first started attending in 2022.
JJ: The motto you get out what you put in, was told to me when I first started and it’s always stuck with me. Outside of wrestling I’ve always had a hard-working mentality as that’s just the way I’ve been brought up, watching my mother raise a big family while working full-time, truly inspired me to match her work ethic. She’s my idol and role model. From the 4am getups to drive to a venue to set up & spend all day there... we do the show and then get home at 3am the next morning to start work at 7am... It just became the regular.
[Josh has a chuckle when he sees my eyes wide at the time commitment that is put in to a live show]
I loved the thrill and the buzz of it and getting to do it with an incredible bunch of people. The airport runs, the hotel drop-offs being able to pick the brain of some of the best in the world in just general chitchat was mind blowing. To me this is the biggest independent wrestling promotion in the UK and Europe so why wouldn’t someone want to be at every single show? in my 100% commitment over the last eight years, I think I can count on two hands the amount of shows that I’ve missed and they’ve all been for unfortunately unmoveable reasons.
DTM: Incredible commitment mate.
JJ: Again, you get out what you put in. You’re owed nothing, and earn everything.
DTM: You've learnt the entire business it feels from ringside and in the ring as a contender - would that be a fair statement?
JJ: Yeah, that’s a fair statement, from ringside you watch and study everyone that goes into that ring, unfortunately sometimes the action comes to find you! But in this sport you need to expect anything and everything and the contenders motto couldn’t be any truer... you win or you learn. I gained a handful of wins in my time but I feel I learned a lot from my performances over the two and a half years. I changed as a wrestler a lot from day one against Doug Williams and Brendan White to the last day against Oskar.
DTM: And in those 8 years with RevPro you saw contenders come and go. Who inspired you to stick it out until your graduation? Obviously your mum and that work ethic, but did you look at other contenders past and present at all?
JJ: I’ve watched and become friends with the majority of previous contenders, The three main who truly inspired me to stick it out, are the ones I feel have done the best post graduation.
Kurtis Chapman who became Undisputed Cruiserweight Champion and nain evented a 229 show with the best wrestler in the world, Will Ospreay.
Gabe Kidd who went on to the LA Dojo to learn under Shibata and become a mainstay in New Japan Pro Wrestling.
JJ Gale, who has really come into his own and is arguably one of the best in this country and someone who is on the run of his life right now... and deservedly so.
[I nod in approval]
JJ: And then there is Kenneth Halfpenny, Dan Magee and Rob Lias who I have a close friendship with outside of wrestling who all pushed me to follow this dream and stick it out and reap the rewards at the end.
DTM: It is incredible the contribution the RevPro Contenders division has made to the British and European wrestling scene. I can't help but notice that there is one name you have not mentioned there...
[Josh's eyebrows raise. I think he knows what I'm getting at but he isn't biting]
DTM: David Francisco?
JJ: I’ve always watched and learned from everyone that has come and gone before me, I have faced a lot of names who are the hottest prospects on the scene right now that I get to call my peers. I’ve always told myself when it was my time to become a contender I would be the best in my class. David, I feel also shared that mindset but in a very different way to myself. There has always been friendly competition between us, but as of late I feel he’s showing his true colours.
DTM: It's been a wild few months. Your match together in St Neots was great - two men with everything to gain and nothing to lose putting in everything they had to get their spot at York Hall. Talk to me about that match.
JJ: It was a second coming for David, I held a singles victory over from from our only other encounter from Southampton April 2022, and the year previous he watched as I earned my right to York Hall, I think that had eaten away at him for a whole year. That night in St Neots he was the better man on the night, but only on that night. You win or you learn, I made just one mistake and that’s all it takes.
DTM: You're very humble.
JJ: You need to be... head down, work hard and stay humble.
DTM: What did you make of his Rumble appearance?
JJ: I felt he disrespected everything we had worked towards together. I thought I knew him, ultimately the question of who the best contender was answered on that night, I think deep down he knew it wasn’t him and he couldn’t deal with it and went into business for himself. He had more eliminations than I did the year previous so congrats for that. But the way it was done? I don’t respect that.
DTM: Yeah it's hard to argue with his results - he got three eliminations and then wins over Sha and Oskar. Cagematch will forever list those wins. They obviously don't tell the whole story though.
JJ: Yeah it is, and again congratulations to him for that, he’s got two big singles wins, but they weren’t fair wins and he’s had to cheat to get him which says a lot.
DTM: Last time we saw you was in the 229 though and that was a big night for you...
JJ: Yes! It was a truly unexpected turn of events... to me arguably the biggest week of my RevPro career facing Gabe Kidd on the Monday and then Oskar on the Sunday. I think both performances together and the respect I gained from both guys earned me my colours.
DTM: That match with Gabe mate... Fanbloodytastic stuff... I was marking out at ringside.
JJ: Thank you very much, I’m proud of that match. It’s one I’ve wanted for well over a year. I felt I proved my worth and what I bring to the table within RevPro. I brought the Heavy Artillery to the Young Bull, and I earned that respect the only way I know how.
DTM: Mate and I've been lucky enough to see Gabe with over a dozen opponents in RevPro - he doesn't offer respect lightly. That must have meant a lot.
JJ: It meant everything to me. I proved my heart, determination and will to die on my sword no matter who it is. He doesn’t offer it lightly at all and that alone speaks volume. It proved to myself that I belong here that the journey so far has been worth it, that Josh James has earnt the right to be here on the biggest platform in British independent professional wrestling.
DTM: And my favourite part? That match was unannounced right? I remember previewing the card and I said I suspected they'd be one more surprise on the day and I was gassed to see it was you and Gabe. When did you find out about the match?
JJ: Right! That show had real Raw after Mania vibes all throughout the card. I found out when I got to the venue. As a contender you always need to be ready to go. I’m ready to go every single time I go to any venue. Headphones go on, I get into that game time zone and it’s time to get to work.
DTM: Mate that is exactly how I felt - Raw after Mania. Surprises, ridiculous matches that you weren't expecting... fuck me that Aigle Blanc and Robbie X match BANGED... and the shocks that came with seeing Ogogo knockout Oku. You kicked it all off.
Six days later we are back in the 229 and you are facing Oskar and Francisco is having his first singles match as 'The Centrepiece'. Had you and Andy spoken about stepping out from the Contenders division prior to that match?
JJ: Pro Wrestling At Its Best is not just a slogan for RevPro, it’s genuine fact. Some of the show cards are truly out of this world... That show [had] everything and it produced so many possibilities and matchups throughout the next few months. It’s truly mouthwatering stuff and a truly exciting time to be a wrestling fan. Andy has known me properly for 6...7 years, he knows how I work & that I’m not much of a talker. I tend to let my actions do the talking for me and I trust the process... the process being if the time is right it will happen. We had a brief conversation about the end of my contenders journey, but it was before Southampton and 229 so it was a genuine surprise.
DTM: It was a privilege to see live - a real moment for all us Josh James fans who have seen the journey, whether it's been for one, two, three or all eight years of it
JJ: I feel I have a good connection with some fans, I truly feel I’m walking proof that if you have a dream and you chase it, it can become reality through hard work and determination.
DTM: Absolutely, your reactions have gotten louder and louder over the past year for sure.
JJ: And I’m truly thankful for the reaction every single time, the fans have watched me grow from the day one rookie to the man I am now. They are every part of this journey as the work I’ve put in.
DTM: So from all those amazing talents you've seen over the years from ringside, or have collected from airports or hotels - who are your bucket list opponents you want to face off against as 'Heavy Artillery' Josh James?
JJ: I joined the trend of writing ‘lists’ of people I wanted to face over the last few years, some names have been ticked, some names disappeared but there’s three names that stick out every year, to me they mean the most to me. Will Ospreay, Tomohiro Ishii and Mike Bailey.
DTM: Who's been ticked?
JJ: Michael Oku, Luke Jacobs, Gabe Kidd, Connor Mills, Robbie X, Zak Knight, RKJ, Shota Umino...
DTM: Some top, top opponents there. I suspected you'd say Ospreay and Ishii but Speedball is one I had not considered before. That match would be a wonderful clash of styles.
JJ: There are more names unticked that I still want to face, but those three names are on every single list. They mean the most to me. The one with Speedball would be incredible and a great clash of styles. I’ve done many seminars of his so it would be good to test what I’ve learnt from him against him.
DTM: Love that. So looking ahead to the rest of 2024 - what are you hoping to tick off this year?
JJ: Im looking to cement my place as a mainstay on the RevPro roster, to hit home runs & show the world who Josh James is all about. It’s very cliche but one eye is always going to be on that heavyweight championship.
DTM: Absolutely and you are now one of THE heavyweights on that roster - very few who can compete with you size-wise. And this last six months it feels like you have utilised that size in the ring better than ever before.
JJ: I don’t want to agree with that yet, I still feel I have a lot of work to do to earn that title, but that is the goal, to be THE heavyweight, THE guy. Over the last six months I’ve come into my own, and I know who I am and what I bring. I know I have the size and strength advantage a lot of the time, Andy would say often on commentary that once I realised the size I am that would lead to success within RevPro, so that’s what I did.
DTM: Yeah that's how I've always felt mate. You have the size advantage, the strength, the power... You are also quicker than you'd expect in the ring and between the ropes... It always felt like once you realised how big you are and learnt to fully utilise it, you could be unstoppable.
JJ: I’ve wanted to be different, so I try to find things that I can do no one else does to make myself unique and different. Getting faster and more explosive is something I’ve worked towards. I could be unstoppable.. one day.
DTM: Who do you look for for inspiration in the game today or in the past?
JJ: It depends on the locker room, each show I’ll look to those who are higher on the card to me, the main eventers and the veterans of the game and ask if they can watch my match and ask for their advice every show.
DTM: And from outside the U.K. do you get a chance to tape study or watch the current TNA, AEW, WWE, New Japan products for inspiration? I feel like there's some Somoa Joe in Josh James' DNA for example...
JJ: I try to when I find the time... my life at the moment is literally work, gym and wrestling. There is so much wrestling at the moment... it’s hard to keep up! I watch bits of all of those and have certain guys I watch to study and get inspiration. Chris Hero, Ishii, Moose... Eddie Kingston... Samoa Joe is definitely one of those for sure!
DTM: Some great wrestlers there with some great similarities and also great differences to learn from. We have a busy RevPro schedule coming up, a pair of 229 shows with Fantastica Mania in between then June takes in Southampton, St Neots, Stevenage and Sheffield. It won't be long until we see your first match out of graduation - are you looking forward to retiring the black pants and the Contender's music?
JJ: Life within RevPro is always busy and hectic but that’s part of the business! I don’t know when the first match post graduation will be but as always I’ll be ready when that graphic goes up, I am looking forward to retiring the black pants and closing that chapter, and I’ve got a fire light under me for this new chapter to start with a home run.
DTM: And do you have any words for the current class of Contenders? It feels like there is a changing of the guard with yourself and Francisco stepping away, Jordan Saeed stepping in and Dynamite Lee Dawson stepping up. Liam Judd was also fairly hands on in Sheffield?
JJ: I want them to step up, commit and grind away... I want them to achieve more than those before them and go above the bar I feel I set... prove to themselves they also belong on this stage. The next batch consisting of Saeed, Liam Judd & Dawson is looking exciting for the future and I’m buzzing to see how they do!
DTM: Me too man, me too. I am also so, so excited to see you on the rest of your journey, starting with whomever steps up first. Can't wait for that first match graphic! I'm gonna let you get washed up from your session mate and crack on with your Sunday. I appreciate your time fella and thanks for inviting me down to this wonderful facility. It's a bit of a mystical Mecca to us RevPro Marks this place so thank you for having me.
JJ: Thank you for taking the time for speaking to me, thanks for coming down, and yeah man I’m buzzing to see the first graphic of this new chapter!
We say our goodbyes and I head back to the car, going to pop and see a few friends down in Southampton before heading home but I'm reflecting on a really lovely chat and can't believe how humble Josh is. He's worked so hard for this but does not believe he's been owed anything - he has grinded for opportunities, tried to take them the best he can, worked hard, been professional and now has his reward. You can't knock that at all, can you? I've been a big advocate for the big man this past year, seeing how much he wants it, how hard he's working for it and that is what makes him worthy of it. I'll be an even bigger advocate now we have had a proper heart to heart. Big man, big heart, small ego. Top fella. Can't wait to see 'Heavy Artillery' step through the curtain at The 1865, down the steps of the 229 or out onto the stage of The Network, The Priory Centre, The HMV Empire or the Gordon Craig Theatre. A long time ago I said every card needed a Josh James hoss fight. I hope you are ready for it as that is what we are about to get. Let's. Fucking. Go.
This Sunday is quite possibly the biggest match of Leyton Buzzard's career. Having debuted for Revolution Pro Wrestling last February in THAT match with Will Ospreay, 'El Capitan' made a big impression from the very beginning. His promo accepting Ospreay's open challenge to wrestlers across the U.K. was everywhere across socials and his match was talked about all year. Ospreay addressed RevPro owner Andy Quildan post match with the comment, "Andy... I want him part of the full time roster". An incredible level of praise from the man many consider, myself included, to be the best in the world. His 2023 in RevPro was spent mostly in competition with Michael Oku, the man he faces this Sunday for the Undisputed British Heavyweight Championship. At the time Oku was the "guy" in RevPro but not yet the champion as Great O Khan held the belt hostage in Japan.
And Japan was Buzzard's next destination, working a four month stretch with Big Japan Pro Wrestling before returning to RevPro at the start of 2024, facing Cameron Khai, Minoru Suzuki and Robbie X prior to the Revolution Tag main event at March's 229, reigniting his feud with Michael Oku which has led to his challenge for the greatest prize in European wrestling. It's certainly got that big fight feel and, with a pinfall over Oku in the 229 and a submission victory this past Sunday in St Neots when Buzzard and Brett Semtex teamed against Oku and RKJ, it certainly feels like momentum is on the challenger's side. It felt like the perfect time, therefore, to try and catch a few words with the challenger and I was delighted when 'El Capitan' invited me down to the New Wave Academy in Newport, his home venue for training since relocating to Bristol, for an exclusive interview ahead of this Sunday's Revolution Rumble.
It's a little before 7pm as I arrive at New Wave Academy and I'm keen to get stuck in. Leyton meets me, relaxed and calm.
Dave The Mark: Thanks for taking the time to meet me, especially in such an important week for you.
Leyton Buzzard: No worries, let's do it.
The training school is quiet - Mondays are not open to the public for classes, which run each of the other nights of the week, and Leyton is one of a very small number of people utilising the Academy tonight. We sit down at a table and get into it.
DTM: So, meeting a day after RevPro Live In St Neots, we have to address that show. It could not have gone any better for you, could it?
[Leyton smiles]
LB: The last stop on the road to York Hall. I came to send a message, that the Undisputed British Heavyweight Champion isn’t invincible and when I choked him out in the middle of the ring I showed everyone that.
DTM: Absolutely. It was a decisive victory. Interestingly, do you know that last time Michael Oku lost to a submission hold on RevPro?
[Leyton shakes his head]
LB: I couldn’t tell you, but I’m the only person to do it whilst he was champion, the only person to pin him as well.
DTM: That's right. His last submission loss was at Revolution Rumble 2023. Exactly a year ago. A good omen for you perhaps.
[Leyton smiles and takes out a bottle of water from his bag and takes a big swig]
DTM: And as you say you have pinned him and submitted him now as champion, a feat no one else can claim, from Will Ospreay to Luke Jacobs, from Gabe Kidd to Zack Gibson. You must feel like momentum is on your side going into this match?
LB: Momentum like no other. Look at the year I’ve had, a little over a year after debuting for RevPro and I’m challenging for the Undisputed British Heavyweight Championship in my York Hall debut. People work for years in this company, years in the contenders programme just to get a taste of this, and I’ve done it in a year. This Sunday the momentum continues when I beat Michael Oku once more.
DTM: It's interesting you say that as if we rewind the clock back, you came into RevPro with such a splash, responding to Will Ospreay's open challenge to BritWres. You were then embroiled with Michael Oku fairly straight after - was that a strategy of yours or was it more opportunistic?
LB: It was 100% strategy. I came here to be the best not to be another guy and after Ospreay I knew what I had to do. I may not like Micheal but there’s no doubt that’s what he is, the best, and when I picked a fight with him I showed everyone exactly who I am and why I’m here, so I can be the best.
DTM: And you were successful - two victories over Oku last year, though perhaps not as decisive a manner as yesterday's - but then the opportunity to go over to Japan arose. An opportunity too good to turn down?
LB: Wrestling in Japan was something I always knew I needed to do, I don’t just want to be the best in this country, I want to be the best in the world. Japan is where the best wrestling in the world is so when the opportunity arose I knew that was my path, Michael could wait. I’ve come back on a different level and I’ve come back to finish what I started.
DTM: That's been obvious since that first 229 show of the year. You were at a top, top level last year but since the return from Japan your levels have risen even higher. What were the biggest lessons you learnt from that experience?
LB: Fighting spirit. Something that cant be taught, you either have it or you don’t, and in Japan I found it in myself. Losing isn’t an option for me, either you put me down or I keep going and one of those isn’t happening.
DTM: Do you see fighting spirit in Michael Oku?
LB: I do, every bit as much as myself. I believe me and Michael need each other, last year I brought out a side of him no one had ever seen before and it sent him on a path of greatness. Now I’m back and after everything we’ve both been through respectively last year, our paths lead back to each other. This Sunday, win, lose or draw, it’s not over between us. I don’t think it ever will be.
DTM: I absolutely can see that. You seem to really bring the best out of each other. With how Sunday came to a close, I'm not sure if you would have been in a position to see amidst the chaos of that main event post-match, but Michael had some very interesting exchanges with Connor Mills, JJ Gale and Luke Jacobs. He is very much a wanted man - does that play into your hands as he is your sole focus, and I am sure you are his, but he has had to have eyes in the back of his head recently?
LB: Being the man comes with a price. You’ve got an array of some of the very best wrestlers in Europe who all want and feel like they deserve a shot at the Champion as well. That’s a lot to have on your mind, I only have one thing on my mind.
DTM: A very, very good point. And you have had the added insurance recently of Brett Semtex. How did that came about?
LB: I saw Brett take on RKJ at the 229. I knew then he was something special, this guys a professional killer. He fought professionally for 10 years and now just over 2 years into professional wrestling he’s already established himself as a main event talent. When he came to me with an offer, it was a no brainer.
[Leyton paused, takes in his surroundings and glances one eye at the clock on the wall]
He’ll be ringside with me on Sunday, It’s only fair. Michael brings Amira out for every match and she’s already shown she has no problem inserting herself into his matches, in fact she’s assaulted me on more than one occasion mid-match. Now I have someone too.
DTM: She certainly has a been a pivotal role in many of his matches and has a lot of history in York Hall, a venue that Oku has had some of the best moments of his career. It is certainly a special place to me and a lot of RevPro fans - is it meaningful to you to be making your York Hall debut?
LB: York Hall is a venue that’s become synonymous with British Wrestling. It’s where some of the great matches in this country's history have taken place. It means a great deal to me, but walking out as champion means more.
DTM: And with RevPro heading out to Barcelona and the announcement of the Copper Box return in August, if Sunday goes to plan, then you will have a lot of men gunning for you going into the Summer. Is that par for the course with being a champion?
[Leyton smiles that enormous, almost maniacal grin]
LB: It’s all part of the plan. After I become Champion it doesn’t matter who’s after me. Mills, Jacobs, RKJ, Gale; no one’s taking that Championship from me.
DTM: A big responsibility but one you seem laser focused on achieving. So what does this week look for you, in preparation?
LB: Same as every other week, I’m not a seasonal fighter, this is my life. I dedicate my life 365 days a year to becoming the very best professional wrestler I can be. Every time I step into the ring I’m coming to win and I’m coming to be the best.
DTM: Same preparation, same result. Given your successes over Oku this past year, that same result could lead to a brand new Undisputed British Heavyweight Champion.
LB: It’s only a matter of time.
[Leyton glances at the clock once more and I realise my time is almost up, though he is being very polite about it]
DTM: And then do you dare to look past Sunday?
LB: Right now my mind is focused on one thing only. Sunday is all I’m looking to right now.
DTM: Three seconds on the mat or ten seconds with that Guillotine locked in and we will have a new champion. It's certainly feels like it could be your time. You've pinned the champion when no one else could and you forced a stoppage when no one else could. Now all that is left is to take the belt, when no one else could.
[Leyton takes a swig from his water and I decide to call tinw on my opportunity to meet El Capitan]
I am conscious of your time and don't want to interfere with your preparations any further. What's next from here?
LB: I become the #1 wrestler in the U.K. and the new Undisputed British Heavyweight Champion. Then who knows what’s next, but one thing I know is El Capitan's real road to greatness starts with the Revolution Rumble this Sunday at York Hall.
And that is where our conversation ends; quite the statement. I thank Leyton for his time and leave him to his training - one of the other lads in the Academy has been waiting patiently behind us for a while and I realise now that he and Leyton are clearly training together, a sparring partner I assume or a spotter for the gym. Leyton is looking in great shape and seemed focused, calm and relaxed, but fully focused on what needs to be done.
72 hours until we find out if he can do it.
I can't wait.
It's been a minute since I have had the chance to meet up and interview one of the RevPro guys but I am determined to continue where we left off in 2023, having met with Levi Muir in South London, JJ Gale in Portsmouth and TK Cooper for Tacos in Elephant Park (ah, the tacos...) So I was delighted to get the chance, on a school night, to head across to the east coast, to Gorleston-On-Sea to meet with Brett Semtex to talk all things RevPro and explore the explosive start he has made to 2024.
In January at London's 229 Venue, as Ricky Knight Jr took to the ring to address Anthony Ogogo, Brett Semtex took an opportunity to strike, attacking RKJ and goading him into a contest, his first RevPro match. Ricky came away with the win but only after a gruelling near 15 minute war. This past Sunday, Semtex was given the opportunity to wrestle Michael Oku, the Undisputed British Heavyweight Champion, fresh on the back of his victory over Will Ospreay at High Stakes a week prior. Again, Semtex was able to go the distance with one of the very best in the world.
It was, however, what followed the Sheffield match that promoted me to reach out to Brett and arrange this interview. After Michael Oku was able to sink in the Half Crab and pick up the submission victory, after taking Oku's handshake offer, Semtex attacked the champion on the stage, seemingly in conjunction with Leyton Buzzard who set Oku a challenge for the Revolution Rumble.
And so, here we are, Wednesday evening and a midweek drive across the country from the home of the Mark in Bedfordshire to Union Thai Gym where, if I can time this right, Brett Semtex should be mid-sparring session which will be a special experience to witness.
I'm keen to get to know the man better to get an idea of what has brought him to RevPro and what has led him to take the path he has. Let's not forget, this is a man who was offered a professional boxing contact, was granted a British Boxing Board of Control Pro Licence but chose to turn it down to become a professional wrestler. I'm excited for this one, I must say, but I'm also hoping that I've learnt from my interview with Levi Muir in August - let's try not to find myself on the back foot from the off, eh? Well, here goes!
Dave The Mark: Well, thanks for taking the time to meet me. It's been a crazy start to 2024 for you, forcing your RevPro debut in January in London and then returning this past Sunday in Sheffield. Has your arrival in RevPro been something you have been working towards?
Brett Semtex: Absolutely, I didn't get into wrestling to be 'another guy', my plan was to wrestle for the best promotions against the best wrestlers. Now fortunate to be a part of the biggest and best promotion in Europe, throwing down and scrapping with some of the best wrestlers in the world.
[Brett Semtex seems comfortable talking and far less intense than I was anticipating, much to my delight, and he seems calm and relaxed]
DTM: Your debut in January was quite the statement; you weren't scheduled to be on the show. Was that a case of you no longer waiting for opportunity but seizing one?
BS: I see an opportunity and I took it, RKJ is one of my best mates but you make you're own luck and I know he'd of done the same so there's no hard feeling.
[He smiles]
But look where I am now, I'm the talk of BritWres.
DTM: Are you guys good now?
[Semtex smiles]
BS: All brothers fight.
DTM: And in terms of making your own luck, when you're built like you are, there's a lot on your side. What are you weighing in at? You must be one of the biggest guys on the RevPro roster?
BS: Currently 110kg, yeah. There's not many guys that are true, out and out heavyweights but styles make fights and you've got to be on your A game against these smaller guys on the roster.
DTM: And your north of six foot, right?
BS: 6'1"
DTM: That must give you the biggest reach in RevPro and your striking power has been incredible against both Ricky and against Michael Oku.
BS: I caught Ricky with the right hand but the tough mf got up. Michael was too experienced but next time I'll put him to sleep.
DTM: Your background across different disciplines gives you a variety to your approach - and you still train here [at Union Thai Gym] regularly in both boxing and kickboxing?
BS: Still train boxing, Muay Thai and MMA. I coach the younger guys coming through. My last fight was around 6 years ago, a KO win in boxing, before I focused on pro wrestling.
DTM: This past Sunday in Sheffield was an interesting night for you.
[I need to be careful here I suspect]
You and Oku went toe to toe - you had the champ in some really compromising positions and, when he was trapped between your legs and taking elbows to the head, there was a moment of panic in his eyes.
Did you feel like you had him?
BS: Yeah, panic, worry, and vulnerability.
I could hear him gasping for air, then soon as I started throwing the elbows I thought he'd quit, but he's the champion for a reason.
DTM: And you seem really humble in defeat. There's definitely no shame in taking a loss to legitimately one of the best in the world.
And then Oku offered his hand at the end end of the match and you took it. Did you know Leyton Buzzard's plan for the champ at that stage, when you shook his hand?
BS: We had the match, he beat me, I respect that but like I said, you have to make your own luck in this world... Just wait and see.
DTM: And was your alignment with Buzzard part of that 'making your own luck' or did he approach you?
BS: He spoke to me, but it was an opportunity, and look, 2 matches in RevPro and I'll be ringside for the RevPro British Heavyweight Championship at York Hall, good position for me I'd say.
DTM: I mean you can't argue with that.
This Sunday you are back in the ring and in one hell of a match - these Revolution Tag matches are chaotic but a great opportunity to get your hands on a who's who of RevPro.
[Brett smiles and nods]
You'll be opposite Ricky and Michael, as well as Sha Samuels, JJ Gale and YOUNGBLOOD.
And obviously you are teaming with Buzzard, as well as Spike Trivet, Gabe Kidd and Reece & Rogan. How are you feeling going into it?
BS: I'm confident, I'll be throwing those boys around like rag dolls, and making sure I'll be leaving the 229 with a win.
DTM: And then moving forwards, you've said you'll be with Leyton Buzzard at York Hall for the Revolution Rumble. Is that a match you have your eyes on?
BS: You've got the Revolution Rumble at the prestigious York Hall - the history of that venue is massive. And if I get a spot in the Rumble, I'll be going in there to win it.
[At this stage we have a few youngsters waiting to speak to Brett, I assume some of the youngsters he teaches at the gym]
DTM: You'd certainly be a favourite - an athletic big man is the most dangerous prospect in any wrestling match but certainly a rumble. Longer term do you have goals you have set yourself in RevPro?
BS: Win the RevPro British Heavyweight Championship, avenge my losses from RKJ and Oku, wrestle the legendary Minoru Suzuki, and go down as one of the best to do it.
DTM: Wow, those are some badass goals.
BS: Like the drunk Irish guy said, I'm not here to take part, I'm here to take over.
[It seems Brett is a man in demand as our little crowd continue to wait and I'm conscious not to take up too much of his time]
DTM: So what's the plan between now and Sunday?
BS: Finish up here, home for a shower, a massage from the wife and a big steak. Mix of sessions between now and Saturday to get me at my optimum best and then six lads are going to tap out or get knocked out.
DTM: I don't want to take up too much of your time, Brett, so I'll leave you to these patient lads who are keen to see you. Good luck with the final preparations for Sunday. You seem focused and ready and I'll be there to see how you get on. Best of luck to you.
[And with that, I make my exit from Union Thai Gym in the beautiful coastal town of Gorleston-On-Sea, not before getting a tip from one of the lads at the gym on the best local chippy for some dinner before I hit the road for the drive home.
He's a charismatic and easy to like guy, Brett, and I really enjoyed our chat. He has not made many friends with how he has come into RevPro but he is ambitious, he's forcing the issue and he is certainly making a splash. I will be curious to see how Sunday goes, how the Road to the Rumble pans out with him, Leyton Buzzard and Michael Oku, and I hope he gets that dream match with Minoru Suzuki down the line.]
Sunshine Machine may just be the most popular tag team in Revolution Pro Wrestling. TK Cooper and Chuck Mambo get some of the loudest reactions from fans, have constant queues for photos and chats at the merch table and used to be seen by many as the sweetheart underdogs of the tag team division at a time when Aussie Open were the dominant force.
However, after dethroning The Knights in January of last year and following it up with a critically acclaimed York Hall victory over Kyle Fletcher and Dunkzilla Davis at High Stakes a few weeks later, they proved they were a force to be reckoned with.
Successful championship defences over Lykos Gym, Destination Everywhere, Pure Beef and the VeloCities followed, as well as non-title defeats of The Contenders, Dan Magee & Mad Kurt, Shota Umino & Yota Tsuji and Greedy Souls, before Brendan White and Danny Jones got the better of TK and Mambo at the 229 in October.
An enthralling rivalry with Souls continued through October, November and into December until Uprising where we saw a brutal Street Fight end in victory for the champions as Sunshine Machine lost by referee stoppage, choking out of consciousness in a bloody mess with the turnbuckles across their throat; the most violent match of 2022.
We hadn't seen too much of TK and Mambo for the first half of 2023, other than a couple of defeats to Arrows of Hungary and The Legion, before they made their return at the 229 in August. Since then we have seen Sunshine Machine defeat CPF in Southampton and pick up losses to Subculture and The Knights in the 229. Whilst it RULES to have them back, we have felt the need to talk about TK since Live in Southampton 25 a few weeks ago when there seemed to be more than a hint that all is not well in the Sunshine Machine camp.
What better time, therefore, for me, Dave The Mark, to pop down to Elephant Park to meet TK Cooper...
We seem to be having somewhat of a late Summer heatwave as I arrived in Elephant Park to meet TK. It took a few attempts to make this happen but here I am, in Cheeky Chicos, the best tacos in London Teeks tells me, as I sit down with The Headbutt Messiah to share some Nacho Mess, Slow Cooked Short Rib and Feta Tacos and a couple of Corona Cero.
Dave The Mark: First of all, I must say it is great to have you and Mambo back in Revolution Pro Wrestling after a four month absence. How did it feel walking into the 229 for the first time back?
TK Cooper: Ah, it is always wonderful to be in the 229.
DTM: So when did we last see you, against Gideon and Lucian, right?
TKC: Yeah it was, yeah. Results wise this year maybe some people would argue there probably hasn't been much to look forward to each 229 but we are us and we try not to let the past affect the future.
I think the fans get that too, you know, there's that break in our track on the entrance where the fans have just decided that's their opportunity to chant our name to the beat.
DTM: Oh I know it well, mate, I'm usually the first one singing.
TKC: It's instances like that that shake the cobwebs and you take a moment to realise there is a room of people here that actually want to see you succeed... that's powerful. So yeah, there's a lot of feelings to process in just a walk out into the 229, but this is where we want to be.
DTM: And what a great way to return, facing the Undisputed British Tag Champions, Subculture. There was some confusion as to whether it was a title or a non-title match. Francesca announced it was for the belts, Andy on commentary explained it wasn't - was it made clear to you and Mambo that it was non-title?
TKC: So we had been told it was non-title, and when Francesca announced it was... we were like... ok, sounds good, let's come back with a bang.
Then, I'm not sure you can see it on the footage, maybe it's off camera, but Francesca is informed during our entrance that it isn't and then doesn't address it which created a whole trickle down effect, not so much for Mambo but definitely for me, because she thought it was a title match, in her eyes, which meant we'd be getting in-ring entrances. Instead, we got no introduction at all by the time Francesca found out it wasn't a title match, and half the fun of our entrance is getting the crowd involved in yelling 'RULES' after 'EVERYBODY KNOWS, SUNSHINE MACHINE...' and you ask anybody who's been there, or watch it back on any 229, the room shakes because literally everybody gets involved.
So that kinda pissed me off a little, spoke to Fran afterwards, she apologised, it's fine, but in the moment it was really frustrating, especially for our comeback. Like, I think naturally I had pretty grandiose ideas of a best case scenario, and for it to feel like it had immediately fallen away was very annoying.
DTM: So you feel that affected your performance in the match? Obviously you and Mambo were unable to get the victory but thinking it was for the titles, then realising it wasn't, did it take the wind out of your sails at all?
TKC: Maybe not overall performance, but definitely in the immediate. And I know it for a fact because, and this will only be obvious to those who know, but from the bell you've got Mandrews and I, I take Mark down with an arm bar takedown but I've trapped the right arm. Now that's not necessarily wrong, but I've never done it that way before. I'll do that takedown 100 times in training and every time I'll do it on the left arm, so yes ever so slightly I'm off my game. Whether that affected us winning, I couldn't say. So if you wanted to measure bell to bell performance, I could confidently argue I wasn't 100%, but maybe that's my fault for taking things on that maybe people would argue as a competitive athlete I shouldn't be focussing on?
DTM: I think that is a fair point, though. Athletes must surely prepare, whether consciously or subconsciously, for a championship match differently to how they do a league match?
TKC: True, there's definitely an extra level of internal pressure you put on yourself when there's more than just pride on the line. Saying that though, title match or not we were aware, given our current 2023 form in RevPro, a win over the new champs could've put us in contention for a Copper Box title shot.
DTM: Indeed. Speaking of the Copper Box, is there a frustration that you guys missed out on being on the card?
TKC: Absolutely. The last match The VeloCities had in RevPro before that 229 was against us at the 10 Year Anniversary, and we beat them and sent them home.
Fast forward one year, they win one match and think that quantifies a title shot? Let's break it down... Greedy Souls beat us, ambushed us for the belts, but then, and you can quote me on it because I was there so I'd know better than Cagematch that doesn't have this listed, lost their first two title defences to us. Sure they then went on to beat us at York Hall only after they'd literally choked the life out of us with a chair and a turnbuckle, that I can't argue, so give them two wins. But then as champs, who'd they beat? The Contenders? Act 2? BBB? Sha and Levi? No disrespect to those named but, trainees, rookie teams and two top singles talents that aren't a team? The reign of Greedy Souls was defined by what they did with Sunshine Machine...then they just were champs until they weren't anymore.
Plus! They claim to be the best team in Europe? They're not even the best team in Wales. So if you want to compare that to what Sunshine Machine have done in RevPro or hell if you want to include Europe, Dave, it's night and day. Not only was our reign longer than the Greedy Souls, we actually had to constantly fight up, overcoming Aussie Open, arguably the best team in the world at the time, probably still are now I'd say, and we did that twice. Destination Everywhere, twice. Lykos Gym, twice. And most relevantly after they survived 30mins and took our spot in the 2022 Great British Tag League final, we, as I mentioned earlier, put The VeloCities to bed at York Hall.
...so yeah, can you tell I'm frustrated, Dave?
DTM: It's coming across mate, believe me. Did that come out against CPF in Southampton?
TKC: I bloody love the CPF boys, I can't stress that enough. But emotions are running high in the Sunshine Machine camp, I can't lie. Losing to Subculture, Velocities undercutting our moment, having at that time no return dates for RevPro, getting a midweek message that they're after a replacement team to fill in for Greedy Souls because of a scheduling mistake? And then, finding out from another team that we weren't even the first choice replacement and only got offered the match because they couldn't make the date... what, so now we're a 3rd tier back up for the back up team? How has that happened!? So yeah, maybe I was throwing bombs a little heavier than normal, nothing malicious. Nothing with the intention to injure, still within the confines of sportsmanship and fair play.
DTM: Then at the start of the month we had the tag match with Ricky and Zak. Were you surprised at all to see Zak as riled up as he was after your banter tweet about them at Wembley?
TKC: No I'm not surprised, it was just a joke, did good numbers on the timeline, ultimately worth it haha. Plus in that opening exchange I was on cruise - anger clouds your judgement and Zak was clearly a step behind, has been for a while, kind of similar situation we've been in all year really.
Mind you he had the last laugh when he and Ricky decapitated Mambo with that Doomsday Device so... fair play... he got one back. I look forward to meeting them again in the blocks or maybe even the finals of GBTL, that's only 1-1 after all! We'll be ready when the rubber match comes around...
DTM: Obviously the result there wasn't what you were looking for. Was that simply a case of The Knights being better on the day?
TKC: Yeah I think it is that simple, watching the match back on the livestream I'm wondering do I need to slap Mambo? Does he need to grab me by the throat too? Something is missing but I couldn't tell you what.
It's like i said earlier, lately we just can't seem to find that championship form, we can't seem to close.
I'm not sure what the issue is, but we're working on it. I know in my heart we are the best tag-team not even in the UK, but in independent wrestling right now, i'm certain of it. Everywhere BUT Rev Pro we have proven we are the bucket list team, the barometer of tag-team wrestling, the one constant in British Wrestling, the most in-demand act. We just need to pull our finger out, work on our weaknesses and the proof will be in the results of GBTL '23... I feel it.
DTM: I spoke with Ricky and Zak after and they have their eyes on the Tag League. Is that where you are hoping Sunshine Machine's rise back to the top will begin?
TKC: By virtue of not having an opportunity to show it physically [the tournament is yet to be officially announced] all we can do is watch and prepare for now, which is frustrating for us and I know for our fans too.
I do have to just take a moment quickly to shout out our fans. We're not blind and we're way too self-conscious and insecure to think we're entitled to anything but the support online fans have given us to will match makers to keep bringing us back to RevPro... despite our current form... is something that's kept us going this year so I can only apologise we haven't made it more worthwhile for you to support us.
However, the way it's spoken about on commentary, I'd have to imagine Great British Tag League '23 is almost definitely on the horizon and I can't think of a better opportunity to repay the fans than to win this year's.
Third time's the charm, as they say.
DTM: Yeah we are certainly approaching Tag League season, which I knows been delayed a bit by the Copper Box show, and, as you say, you have had two cracks at it already, but is there an even greater desire this year, given everything we have discussed?
TKC: It's not make or break, there's always going to be another opportunity to do something, but I think more than ever, there is certainly an internal motivation to cement a legacy here in RevPro and ticking that Tag League box is another step in doing that. I hate to speak for Mambo but I think he'd agree, yes we are those guys that love to have a good time, have fun, but we've proven we are also the team that can get it done when it matters most. From who we were as Escaping The Midcard to what we've become as Sunshine Machine, there is still that belief there, we haven't given up on ourselves, we just can't seem to get the pieces to fall where we want them, but as you saw in Southampton, maybe they're starting to again, even if the RKJ and Zak match didn't go our way.
DTM: Let's hope so man, let's hope so as, I think I can speak for the whole of the RevPro fanbase when I say, Sunshine Machine RULES and we love to see you guys out there, having fun but most, importantly, proving you are one of the very best tag teams in Europe.
TK and I took in another hour of grub and drinks and put the world to right, off the record. He's in good spirits, maybe we don't need to talk about TK as much as we thought but that smile is certainly a little thinner than we are used to.
'The Heart and Soul of Revolution Pro-Wrestling', JJ Gale is having somewhat of a breakout year. Wins over Will Kaven and Yota Tsuji (twice), and more recently, Cameron Khai and Joshua James, mean that 'Gale Force' has stormed up five singles wins in a calendar year for the first time in his career.
He has the biggest match of his life upcoming, facing off against New Japan Pro-Wrestling's Kosei Fujita, at the Copper Box Arena this Saturday. At Epic Encounter in July, JJ called out Zack Sabre Jr, after ZSJ cruelly took away Gale's chances at winning the Revolution Rumble in March. Zack instead told JJ he would face his fellow TMDK member Fujita, Zack's "hand picked protégé". Sabre Jr told Gale that, if he could get past Fujita, then "maybe, just maybe" Zack would give him a singles match.
JJ has been deep in training to ensure that this opportunity is capitalised upon so I took the chance to nip down to the Portsmouth School of Wrestling to get an exclusive with the 'Heart and Soul of Revolution Pro-Wrestling'...
It is another lovely August afternoon as I make my way into the Portsmouth School of Wrestling, a Mecca of types for Revolution Pro-Wrestling fans. When I reached out to JJ for this meet he asked if I could travel down to the school as he is in his final preparations for the Copper Box show this Saturday, August 26th, for the 11th Anniversary of RevPro. I must admit, I am a lot less nervous than I was last time when I travelled to South London to meet an intimidating and bloodthirsty Levi Muir; something tells me this will be a far easier chat about what's next for JJ Gale going into the biggest match of his life.
Dave The Mark: Well first of all, thank you so much for taking the time out of your preparation to meet with me and for inviting me down to this wonderful facility, the Portsmouth School of Wrestling - a very special place to you but also to all Revolution Pro-Wrestling fans who know the history of this building and the stars it has produced. We've been down on the South Coast for the past two RevPro Sundays, Southampton then Portsmouth; how does it feel hearing those crowds chant "he's one of our own" so passionately to you?
JJ Gale: It's been wicked. I think the sweet thing about me and RevPro is [that] I came in very early on in my wrestling career, I'd had about a year and a half, two years experience but on a lot lower level shows. But really, I always say, I'm a product of the Portsmouth School of Wrestling, I'm a product of RevPro from the moment I started training here.
I grew and developed as a pro-wrestler and I think the RevPro fans have seen me from, literally stepping out of the crowd in my black Contenders' t-shirt to fight Hikuleo, of all people, to this Saturday when I fight in the Copper Box Arena in front of four or five thousand people wrestling a Japanese Young Boy. Now, that's not to discredit Fujita, but it is kind of a full circle moment for me. The RevPro fans have seen me grow and develop, in ability and win-record, and I just feel like I'm firing on all cylinders right now. I'm so ready for Saturday and I feel that they feel that energy too.
Dave The Mark: Certainly your win-loss record in 2023 is up there with anybody's, five singles wins, and on the road to the Copper Box you've overcome Cameron Khai and Joshua James, two very different opponents; is that something you enjoy and something that you relish, taking on opponents with different styles?
JJ: Yeah, 100%. What I seek to do is find the biggest and most diverse challenges because that's when you grow and develop as a professional wrestler, as a human being. I've always taken the philosophy, don't take the easy route, whether that was debuting like I did against Hikuleo or fighting Will Ospreay, the Heavyweight Champion at the time and the best wrestler in the world, in front of no fans in a freezing cold Portsmouth School of Wrestling.
When I started a tag team with Callum Newman, we weren't really friends, we weren't really aware of each other, it was a handshake sort of deal and we figured it out. Will Ospreay said that "you guys will complement each other" so we figured it out. Look at Zack Sabre Jr; no-one thought I'd eliminate him from the Revolution Rumble. I don't take the easy route and it has proven to be successful. Finding the hardest and most diverse challenge is what I thrive on.
DTM: It's interesting that you talk about Callum [Newman] there. Have you got any thoughts on his conduct over the last couple of months, becoming the Empire's Apprentice, his actions towards Leon Slater, and I suppose the ramifications of that being, he's got a tour of Japan out of it?
JJ: I mean, heah, no doubt we've taken different routes since the tag team split in February. We knew why we were in that team, it was to help each other grow and learn to take from each other's strengths and weaknesses to become more rounded pro-wrestlers. And when you've got someone like Will Ospreay saying, "come together, it's going to help you", you're going to take it, right? The bottom line is, we weren't the best tag team in the world. Yes we grew, yes we developed, yes we had matches that people talked about but as a tag team we just weren't getting those wins. We respectfully went our separate ways, we've talked about my journey but, hell yeah, he's done what he had to do. There's no hard feelings between me and Callum and I respect that he's gone out there, aligned himself with Will, aligned himself with United Empire; I mean if you are going to sit under the learning tree of anyone, it's going to be those guys. And here he is, he is off to New Japan Pro-Wrestling as a Young Lion and I respect that and I'm proud of him. I just say, watch out, because in a few years I'll be there with him and then maybe we will finally get that match.
DTM: Well, I certainly hope so. It's an interesting phrase you used there about doing what you need to do. Is that how feel, a little bit, going into the Copper Box with Fujita being what you seem to "need to do" in order to get your hands on Zack?
JJ: Oh yeah. 100%. I've not been shy on saying since the Revolution Rumble that it's consumed me, what happened. I felt like, coming into 2023, I manifested and said it time and time again on social media, in backstage comments, even in the ring; 2023 is my year. That is something I believed, that I knew was going to come true; there was no other way it was going to go. And I felt like I was on the trajectory and that break-out moment, that star-making moment, was going to be at York Hall at the Revolution Rumble.
I eliminated [Francesco] Akira who was an IWGP Junior Tag Team Champion at the time, alongside Callum, we eliminated arguably the biggest star on the British wrestling scene, the biggest rising star, in Leon Slater and then, to the shock of everyone, I blasted Zack Sabre Jr with the Gale Force and I threw his arse over the top rope. You know, I was pretty shocked myself when that happened but I was riding the wave and then, hey look, Zack disappointed me. He was someone I looked up to, hell he's someone everyone on the scene looks up to for what he's achieved, flying the flag for British wrestling across the world.
He showed me that maybe he's not the man I thought he was. He couldn't take that loss. He had to come back in and do what he did to me and, ultimately, cost me what I believed was going to be my breakout moment. So ever since then it's consumed me and I'm desperate to get my hands on him again. And it seems he's going to lay the challenges down but, Fujita, bring it on, I've never felt this focused and ready.
[JJ takes a long pause, taking in some water]
I'm not underestimating Fujita, because I know he's a hell of a talent, and I'm telling you five or ten years down the line, he'll be one of the best in the world from what I've seen but now's not your time Fujita, now is the time of JJ Gale.
I didn't get my crowning moment at York Hall but you can bet everything you have that, this Saturday at the Copper Box Arena, Francesca [Oliver, RevPro ring announcer] in front of 5,000 fans will be saying after the match that "the winner of this match is JJ Gale". And Zack, you'll be backstage, I'm hoping your watching on the monitor whilst you prepare for RKJ and see what I do to your boy because that will be your fate in the very near future.
DTM: I was there at the Rumble, I was there front row and I felt the momentum in the building, the crowd were with you and we felt that, this was your moment. You say he surprised and let you down but I think it is fair to say he surprised and let down a lot of the RevPro fans. Is your destiny to see Zack at York Hall before the end of the year?
JJ: I'd love it to be York Hall, I feel that is the place for it to happen but, at the end of the day, whether it's York Hall, 229, Southampton, I don't care; I'm getting my hands on Zack Sabre Jr. I've waited since March. I'll keep waiting. It's not on me, anytime, any place. I proved that in the 1865 [two weeks ago]; Callum Newman's caught in traffic, he's not going to get here until later on in the show, someone needs to wrestle Cameron Khai. Who's going to wrestle? JJ Gale? You got your gear? Yeah I've got my gear. I got it on, got out there with 20 minutes notice and beat Cameron Khai. I'm ready. I stay ready. I'm ready all year round because no-one outworks me in the Portsmouth School of Wrestling. I don't care that I've been wrestling six or seven years, I'm still training two, three times a week, I'm in the gym everyday. Zack Sabre Jr, I'm ready. You say and we play.
DTM: 'The Heart and Soul of Revolution Pro-Wrestling', eh?
JJ: You know it.
DTM: I spoke with Fujita earlier in the week, caught a few words together over social media. His message to you was really, really clear.
After a very eventful month, Levi Muir has made huge waves in Revolution Pro-Wrestling and, not necessarily for the right things. In the space of two weeks Levi has aligned himself with Trent Seven, hospitalised Michael Oku, left David Francisco in need of medical assessment and put his hands on Joshua James and Ref Harv. He was introduced at the 1865 in Southampton as Trent Seven's "Insurance Policy" by Andy Quildan on commentary this past Sunday. This Sunday he has the biggest match of his career, facing Undisputed British Heavyweight Champion Michael Oku ahead of the Master of the Half-Crab's showdown with Trent at the Copper Box Arena on Sunday 26th August.
It's safe to say we need some answers from Levi so I reached out and made the drive down to South London for a sit down with the self-proclaimed Future World Champion...
It is midday on a sunny Tuesday in an uncharacteristically quiet South London as I park up half an hour early to meet Levi Muir in the hope to bring some answers to the questions RevPro fans, and management, have been asking this past week. We have agreed to meet in a pub near Levi's home and gym, though I have been asked not to disclose the exact location as this is where Levi "lives not where [he] works".
I must admit, I am more than a little nervous sitting in the pub awaiting Levi; something tells me this will not be smooth sailing. An hour later than agreed, Levi walks in, looking incredible in a t-shirt that shows off just about every muscle in his JACKED body. He orders a water and gets out his protein shake, I order a Guinness 0.0.
"Alcohol’s for losers. I am an elite athlete and my body is a temple," he says as we order. I point out that my drink is non-alcoholic and he comments on "dead calories" and glances at my larger-than-I'd-like waist line.
We haven't started as well as I'd hoped we would.
Dave The Mark: You burst onto the scene in spectacular fashion here in RevPro, beating the Undisputed British Tag Team Champion Brendan White in singles action in the 229 back in May. You then had a tag title shot with Sha Samuels, which you weren't able to capitalise on, and then a singles loss to Luke Jacobs in Stevenage. Fast forward to now and we have seen you attack Undisputed British Heavyweight Champion Michael Oku in London and go hell for leather against David Francisco in Southampton. Even Joshua James and Ref Harv have felt the power of Levi Muir this past Sunday. So my first question has to be, what has prompted this change in attitude?
Levi Muir: Why are you talking about my losses? Have you not seen what I do to people who speak badly on my name? I just destroyed one Dave. I’ll smoke you too, you smelly virgin.
(Great start. I can feel the sweat on my brow already).
LM: As far as I’m concerned, I’m undefeated in RevPro. And don’t talk to me about no Greedy Souls either. That was a Sha Samuels problem. He’s dead weight. I had to ditch him. The Luke Jacob’s match? I’m still fairly new in this game and I was a bit confused by the rules. I thought a 3 count ended the ROUND, turns out it actually ended the MATCH. I spoke to the London Athletic Wrestling Commission and they said the Luke Jacob’s match will be expunged from my record so don’t mention that again either or I’ll body you like I bodied Ref Harv.
(I attempt to direct the interview back on course but he's off again...)
LM: Now onto more important matters - what’s prompted the attitude change? Because I can. Who’s gonna do something about it? Are you Dave? No you aren’t. Why? Because you can’t. I’m 6’1, 240lb and I’m on HELLA calories and getting bigger by the day. I used to get bullied in this business, but now I’m bigger than everybody else so no one can tell me anything.
I hate Micheal Oku. That’s it. I’ll speak about it in depth at another time but he’s a fraud. Fugazi. A small manchild. Me and OG Trent Seven share a similar dislike for him, so getting paid to put a bad, bad beatdown on the boy was a no brainer for me. That’s it. Simple. Two winners who both hate an individual, teaming up to exterminate the rat.
DTM: You talk about being bullied within the business - are you willing to elaborate?
LM: They don’t bully you to your face. Only behind your back. Derogatory messages in WhatsApp groups I see all. Typical spineless Pro-Wrestlers. That’s how weasels operate. You all know how I’ve felt. You just wanna fit in somewhere right? Work for your success? Achieve your dreams. But there’s always people talking behind your back, making you feel unwelcome and not giving you the opportunities you deserve. Small men who turn into big men in numbers. The worst type of human being. Now I’m self aware enough to realise it. Like I said, revenge has no expiration date.
(I think we are back on track. He's smiling.)
DTM: And you spoke about "getting paid" to put a "beatdown" on people. Can we clarify, do you mean paid by RevPro management regardless of these actions or paid by Trent Seven specifically to carry out these actions?
LM: Are you police? Do you want to know what colour underwear I have on today as well, Dave? Stop asking so many questions you chatty patty. Just know this is what happens when you take a man’s kindness for weakness.
(Jeez Louise, that derailed quickly.)
DTM: Ok. I'll try a different approach. Your match was heated with David Francisco this past Sunday. A lot was said on social media beforehand. Do you have any words for him now post-match?
LM: He should be thanking me, I taught him an invaluable life lesson. What’s the lesson today here, kids? ACCOUNTABILITY. Every action has a reaction. He thought he was untouchable. Thought the squad was gonna come save him. Wrong. Micheal Oku wasn’t even there on Sunday! Probably still laid up in a hospital somewhere with his little scrawny fractured neck. David dragged my name through the dirt, so I dragged my boot across his face. Bet he won’t be talking about my work ethic again in a rush since I put work in on his face.
(The smile on Levi's face in that last sentence is unnerving. I take a long, slow gulp of the Guinness 0.0)
DTM: Speaking of Michael Oku, how are you feeling ahead of this Sunday's match at the Portsmouth Guildhall?
LM: Motivated to inflict as much damage as I can on him before his match with Trent at the Copperbox.
That’s it.
I’m aggressive, bloodthirsty and ready for the challenge. Trent said break him, so guess what ima do? Break him.
DTM: And if Trent walks out of the Copperbox no longer the 'Holder of the British Heavyweight Championship' but the 'UNDISPUTED British Heavyweight Championship', what then for you? Surely there is a part of you that enjoyed having that gold over your shoulder at the 1865?
LM: Look at you trying to put dissension in the ranks. You’re lucky I don’t slap you for that one, Dave, you cheeky bastard.
(I think I gulped nearly half the pint after that one and the sweat is not just in the brow now, I feel it dripping down my cheek.)
LM: Trent is the OG. My time will come. I’m a very focused and motivated individual. Tunnel visioned. And right now I’m tunnel visioned on breaking Micheal Oku.
DTM: Fair enough. Sorry, I didn't mean to cause offence.
(That stare!)
DTM: I won't take up any more of your time, but just one final question; it was your birthday this week, right? Where will Levi Muir be in five years time?
LM: Yep. 26 years old. Achieved more than most and still got lots more to do. You close your eyes and picture the highest point you can get to in this business. Whatever that looks like for you - that’s where I’ll be. Laughing all the way to the bank at everyone who said I’d never be here.
(Final gulp and a huge sense of relief.)
DTM: Ok, then. Thank you for your time and we await with... abated breath, shall we say, your match at the Portsmouth Guildhall with Undisputed British Heavyweight Champion Michael Oku this Sunday. Have a good week preparing and, I... look forward to catching up again soon.
And EXHALE. That was intense. He calls himself the Future World Champion. I challenge anyone to disagree. I certainly don't.
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